Posted by: Donna Cunningham | March 30, 2010

Getting a Grip on Saturn-Neptune Aspects

©3-29-2010 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

Note: The following is an excerpt from a longer chapter on Saturn-Neptune aspects in Donna’s ebook, The Outer Planets and Inner Life, volume 3:  Outer Planets in Aspect, available at http://www.moonmavenpublications.com .

 Saturn and Neptune are possibly the two planets whose concerns and ways of operating are hardest to reconcile.  One way to fathom the degree of comfort or discomfort in planetary pairs is to compare keywords and phrases like those in the table below.

 When you attempt to combine these two lists, you begin to grasp the balancing act people with this aspect have to perform—and yet the great potential they have for creating new realities for all of us. Saturn represents form and structure, while Neptune represents intangibility, formlessness and chaos, teaching us that this seemingly solid world, with all its woes, is itself an illusion. Saturn asks us to deal with reality; Neptune tends to dwell in fantasy, imagination, and illusion—dreaming dreams that sustain and inspire us and those we touch.

Saturn is the material plane of existence; Neptune is the astral realm. Saturn-Neptune people are often disillusioned in the course of their lives, but it’s  because they tend to dwell in an illusory world that they prefer to the struggles of this plane. Saturn represents aging and the passage of time, while Neptune recognizes the deeper truth that we’re eternal and that this lifetime is but one in an ever-flowing stream.

Saturn is the part of us that sets long-range goals and has the persistence to succeed over the long haul, while Neptune is the part of us that would rather drift through life effortlessly. It’s often said that genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration—if so, Saturn supplies the perspiration and Neptune the inspiration. Yet all form comes out of vision, so this aspect shows great potential to realize visions when the two planets are working in alliance. The combination represents Spirit emerging into Form and Vision into Manifestation. The highest potential of the pair is to build compassionate systems and structures, balancing the material world’s demands with the soul’s need for spiritual growth.

Negotiating the Demands of Saturn and Neptune

Saturn asks that we take responsibility for our actions and their consequences, while Neptune represents where we might be in denial, shifting the blame for our shortcomings to others while claiming to be the innocent victim. Saturn—and the authority figures it represents—can be stern and forbidding. Saturnians set exacting standards and hold themselves and others accountable. They make clear-cut rules and can come down hard on those who disobey those rules.

 On the other hand, Neptune represents the capacity for empathy and compassion that helps us forgive ourselves and others. Neptune does not recognize or respect boundaries, seeing us as all one, while Saturn is about setting limits and boundaries—remember its rings! Saturn’s defenses can crystallize into walls that separate us from others; Neptune helps us be one with All That Is. Fear (Saturn) separates us; forgiveness (Neptune) unites us.

Not everyone with prominent Saturn-Neptune hard aspects comes through it like a trouper. Some have been severely hampered by their backgrounds and tend to live out the more negative expressions of this combination that are suggested by the keywords. These are among the Saturn -challenged, finding it hard to fulfill Saturn’s functions. They may play the victim card heavily to excuse their shortcomings and lack of self-discipline, or they may opt out of responsibilities through an addiction.

However, others with these same aspects who faced similar challenges have been pushed to develop courage, character, and GRIT. The difference depends in part on soul development and in part on the prominence of the aspect and how it’s woven into the natal chart.  One factor may be whether Neptune or Saturn is the more strongly featured or well-aspected of the two planets. (You can find out which is stronger by taking the tests at the end of this post.

 Family Background—Who’s the Parent Here?

Many of my clients with prominent Saturn-Neptune aspects reported that they came up the hard way.  Hardships endured during their childhood and/or difficult circumstances in adulthood have forced them to grapple with limitations and with barriers to success and happiness.

 Thinking about clients and researching notables with AstroDataBank, I could not help but be impressed by many with this aspect who have honed their capacity to TRANSCEND LIMITATION, whether based in hardships in the family of origin or encountered later in life. Saturn would represent limitations, while Neptune would represent finding spiritual strength to help us transcend our realities.

When the Sun, Moon, Midheaven, 4th or 10th houses are affected by hard angles between Neptune and Saturn, it’s often the case that one or both parents had personal difficulties, such as a chronic physical or emotional illness, an addiction, or perhaps extreme financial hardship. Those difficulties may have interfered with the parent being a stable, reliable authority figure, especially at crucial stages in the child’s life, such as the transiting Saturn square and opposition to these natal positions at ages 7 and 14 respectively.

At the very least, these chart signatures can suggest inconsistent authority figures who were solidly present part of the time, only to relapse into dysfunctional behavior patterns or to be absent for extended periods. This might involve a father who travels for his job, for instance, or a hard-driving corporate type or physician who works 80 hours a week.

When parental functions were weak or intermittent, many oldest children with this aspect became parentified. That is, they took on some of the parental functions for siblings, assumed a heavy load of household duties, or had to go to work early to help out financially. They might have become caretakers for one or both parents, perhaps being delegated to collect Dad from the neighborhood saloon or nurse Mom through a long illness.

They can be amazingly self-sufficient young people, and yet there can be a wistful quality about them, even as adults, as though they were asking, “Why me? Why am I always the responsible one? Why is my reality forever shifting? Why can’t it stay stable?”

 Readers, do you have a Neptune-Saturn aspect?  How has it worked in your life?  Don’t miss the comment section for this article, as readers are sharing amazing insights about how they’ve experienced this difficult aspect in their own charts and their impact on their family histories. 

Note: thiOPIL v3 2014 sms has been an excerpt from a longer chapter on Saturn-Neptune aspects in Donna’s ebook, The Outer Planets and Inner Life, volume 3:  Outer Planets in Aspect, available from  Moon Maven Publications.  ($15 for the ebook, or $35 for the three-book series on the outer planets.)

More Excerpts from Donna’s Books:

More articles to help you understand how Neptune and Saturn combine:

  If this post was helpful, sign up for a subscription, and get a FREE EBOOKLET for Skywriter Subscribers Only: Mothers, Daughters, and the Moon, a 50-page excerpt from The Moon in your Life. Read more about it here: New: Free Booklet For Skywriter Subscribers! 

 If you’re already a subscriber and want a copy, forward the most recent email post to me at moonmave@spiritone.com. To sign up for a subscription, go to the top right hand corner of the blog and click on “Subscribe.”  Then send me an email with your subscription confirmation or an email post with a request for the booklet in the subject line. Art credits: these retro photos are part of the offerings on a software graphics program that no longer exists by Micrographyx.  Alas!  The good ones always die young.

  

  

 

 

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Responses

  1. Donna, once again this is an amazing article !

    I have a square between Saturn and Neptune (Neptune is conjunct my MC) and I indeed had to take care of my mother when I was a child since my father worked abroad.
    No one was there to help me handling everyday life, so I had to grow up very quickly.

    And now I have still that feeling that I am more mature than my parents.

    • And probably always wil be more mature than your parents, Karen. That picture of the child with her weeping mother always does it to me. Donna

  2. Gosh, amazing article. I have saturn opp neptune and I think it gives me a lot of psychological issues – would that make sense?
    Saturn is in my 1st house with neptune in the 6th and I have big issues with my Dad – I felt he was emotionally absent at best, abusive at worst. I still feel ‘the victim’ that he never protected me or supported me. Hell I want a Daddy who thinks the sun shines from my derrière, yet I feel I have real inner strength to endure anything.
    I think I’m really tough and that I’m the grown up in our relationship; My Dad is weak psychologically and although I have similar traits I deal with it all better…I still find it hard to reconcile though.
    My mother is just emotionally cold – very left brained and unable to reach me so I feel very isolated, but that gives me resilience I guess.

    • Oh, yeah, India, it makes plenty of sense! Your experience of parenting, given the Neptune Saturn opposition, is an excellent example of how painful and lacking in nurturance that aspect can be. Be tender with yourself. Donna

  3. I have the Saturn in Leo sextile Neptune in Libra and consequently found it fairly easy to live with. My mother was typically co-dependent and my dad is pleasant but very good at avoiding conflict. However, I always knew they both loved and approved of me – a great blessing.

    My husband has Saturn conj Neptune in Libra opposing his Moon from his 7th house – a whole different story. His father was killed in an auto accident when he was in his early twenties and he never really had the opportunity to get to know him as an adult. Therefore he idealized (Neptune) his father (Saturn).

    His mother and he never have had much of anything in common and she is a rather controlling personality. She also pretty much lives in a state of denial about her unfounded expectations (Neptune) regarding her son’s behavior. After watching this relationship for twenty years, I have told him repeatedly she is highly unlikely to ever be able to really “hear” him. Sad.

    Curious note about those with this conj in Libra – the ones I know either stay married (not always happily) or have been single most of their lives.

    diane~

    • Thanks, Diane–lots of good material here, you really know that aspect! Especially interesting about the two different patterns in marriage. Donna

  4. With Saturn conjunct Neptune in my second house opposing Venus and Mercury in my 7th and a Pisces father who worked away 5 days/wk, I thought you were writing this article specifically for me. To quote the Greatful Dead, “What a long strange trip it’s been.”

    I learned frugality from depression era parents. You know how they are. (Your dad is 11 days younger than mine and although he never built a boat in the house, my dad could make anything I discribed to him.) I am never without money and have an intuitive ability to know when to have a chat with a banker.

    I also know when to “cut bait and run” in a relationship. I’d call that, Saturn at peace with Neptune. The Libra/Aries 2nd house and 7th house forces help I think. It really is a nice balance when you learn to “hang ten and shoot the curl”.
    Thanks for writing this piece. I thoroughly enjoyed it.–mb

    • Wow, the experiences people are sharing here really give us lots of clarity on what it’s like to live with this aspect. Marybeth, It sounds like you were able to learn from the good example that your parents imparted and also learn what not to do. Donna

  5. I have Saturn in the 4th, semi-square my Neptune/Mercury/Jupiter conjunction in the 2nd/3rd. Both parents were hard-working and responsible, but emotionally unavailable, rarely encouraging, and frequently critical (or mean). My dad was a drinker and traveled during the week, so he was gone much of the time, which was a good thing – he wasn’t much interested in us anyway. My mother, who could be very loving, was also perpetually stressed-out, and I was made to feel responsible for her emotional wellbeing. At a relatively young age, I was put in charge of looking after my brother; we grew up in a rough neighborhood and to this day, I feel sad that I didn’t do a better job of protecting him.

    Although I’ve tried to put my Neptunian inspirations and insights to work in a practical Saturnian way (both professionally and personally), I frequently feel as if I’m seeing realities no one else wants to see (or deal with), and that realization makes me feel alone and out of step. I can be very hard on myself when I fail to achieve something – I try to remember that I’m only responsible for my effort, not the outcome. I always feel much better when I’m finally able to release my hold and leave the rest to God.

    One of my biggest challenges in dealing with real world limitations has been that what seem like “impossibly high standards” to others, appear very doable to me. I’ve attributed these frustrations to my Chiron/Uranus opposition (in the 6th/12th), but now I see that Neptune and Saturn play a role as well, which is something I probably wouldn’t have considered if not for this post. Thanks.

    • Yeah, LB, it’s easy to overlook the semisquares (45 degrees) and sesquiquadrates (135 degrees), but boy does your description of how life was with your parents sound textbook Neptune-Saturn. It must work in with other aspects to tie them together. Donna

  6. That “Why do I always have to be the responsible one?” plaint resonates so strongly with me! It’s good to see so many posts from other people with Saturn-Neptune aspects, including conjunctions, Diane, your husband’s aspects and mine are so similar. I, too, have Saturn conjunct Neptune in Libra in the first house, but in my case opposing my Sun rather than my Moon. And it was my father who could never really “hear” me. When I was just a year old, my father volunteered to serve as an army chaplain and went to Korea for a year, absenting himself from my mother’s life and mine (Pluto transited my Sun by trine that year). I think I must have been called on to comfort my mother, and I know that when my father returned, he was very upset that I couldn’t just pick up a happy-go-lucky relationship with him where we had left off. I always felt he wanted a stronger connection with me than I was able to give him. I’m the oldest child in the family, so I’m the only one who experienced this particular dynamic.

    But like others here, I do feel the Saturn-Neptune conjunction is a source of strength. I have as great a gift for inspiration as anyone else with a strong Neptune, but I’m much more capable than most Neptunians at the kind of step-by-step, persistent detail-work that can translate the inspiration into a tangible product.

    • HI, Margaret, thanks for sharing what that aspect is like, and I especially like understanding it in the historical context of the Korean war. But then, history is one of your special areas of expertise. It’s true, though, that Saturn-Neptune people are a much different breed than the true Neptunian–able to be grounded when necessary, but anything but happy about it. Donna

      PS. The Oregon Astrological Association is having their annual AstroFaire in May–always good fun–and I’m going to be part of a panel there. I hope to see you there.

      • I need to amend one detail in my post above. It turns out my younger sister’s experience with my father was very similar to my own. We were both just too embarrassed about our supposed inadequacies in regard to our father to share with each other how we felt until very recently. It was great to talk with her about this!

  7. I have a Potent Saturn 7th Square Neptune 4th!

    My Mother also is not good with me and she does not recognize that neither confront that!!!

    She just says that i am wrong even when the facts are obvious !!!

    I also trust some people and then i find their tricks later !!!!

    Also I have visions of the future and can see some events nobody can it is amazing i saw United States Crisis 12 years ago (Nobody Believed me but now they do!!) well i also study a lot of many things so that helps a lot !!!

    Thank You Donna Cunningham for Opening doors for us and for all this enlightening !!!

    Best Wishes everybody !!!

    • That theme of seeing the truth and not being believed sounds a bit more Plutonian–or maybe a combination of Pluto and Neptune. It’s a bit like the myth of Cassandra, the prophetess no one believed. Donna

      • I have Pluto sextile Neptune, and it’s interesting about the Cassandra myth. People don’t believe me when I make remarks about present or future events. But they are puzzled when I leave them behind because I saw the storm coming.

        Later on, they will convey to me, that it rained and they got wet.

      • Hi, VJ, your ability to predict must come from aspects in your chart other than Pluto sextile Neptune, because that aspect was a long, slow one that was in orb for about 30 years, and everyone born during that period had that aspect. Donna

  8. I have a 5th house Saturn(Leo) TRINE an 8th house Neptune(Sag), which, from what I’ve been learning about, would seem to be a more harmonious ASPECT??? (still a beginner and still trying to work out what all of the deeper meanings of the sign/planet/houses are;-)….but, then I thought about the fact that these two planets are very much opposites, and wondered how that kind of “opposition” marries with the ‘cooperation’ of a trine??? The reason I’m even questioning it is because I certainly DO NOT feel any kind of harmony with Saturn, with respect to my Neptunian nature. Although, maybe that IS it’s nature???

    I grew up, mainly “raising” myself. My very absent father sexually abused me as as very young child, which my mother never knew about until my adulthood, and after their divorce when I was 9, my mother began abusing alcohol, and in turn became emotionally abusive to me. At the age of 10, I was “given the freedom” of learning to cook for myself, do my own laundry, and even drove the car for my mother when she was too drunk to drive herself….but then was also subjected to her extremely strict catholic morals/values, which I was also expected to follow religiously.

    Needless to say, all of this has affected me tremendously as an adult, however, for the most part;-) I feel as though I turned out much “better” than I would have assumed someone with this childhood would have faired. Somehow, I’ve been able to kind of “see the bigger picture” in regard to why my parents did what they did and although I certainly have some major issues in certain areas of my life, I do feel that everything happened to teach me some VERY important things about myself, the world and my relationship/interaction with everyone in it. So….maybe that’s part of the TRINE aspect of the Neptune-Saturn relationship???

    • Samantha, your story is the very epitome of Saturn-Neptune hardships and failed parenting, so, no, it’s doesn’t sound trine-like at all. Alas, I find that the nature of the planets involved in an aspect over-rides the type of angle, and so a trine from Saturn to Neptune or Saturn to Pluto can still be very painful to live with. Donna

      • Trines, I tend to think, are associated with events and experiences that we have little or no control over, whether these are happy and fortunate events that come to us out of the blue, or misfortunes we’re not able to avert. As adults, we can use dynamic transits like squares and sextiles and oppositions and quintiles, to set up conditions that will make trines in our charts and transits by trine express in a positive, “lucky” way. But as children, we have so little power. Perhaps the experiences associated with trines are related to chains of causation that were set up in past lives.

      • Interesting perspective, Margaret, thanks. Donna

  9. Thanks Donna and Margaret!! I really appreciate your input ;-) I LOVE learning about all of this stuff!!!

    • I just re-read Margaret’s suggestion again and the part about trines being related to chains of causation set up in past lives is REALLY interesting!!! It struck a chord and made sense on some sub-conscious level….I think I’m going to check out the other trines I have and see if they relate to any of the past-life experiences I’ve had. ;-)

  10. Saturn is in my 2nd house square Neptune in the 11th. I always felt as if my parents never really heard me. I felt they didn’t take what I said seriously. And they didn’t tell me things I needed to know. I wonder if they assumed my older siblings would tell me or I would figure it out for myself sooner or later. I kind of felt I was an afterthought. I wish they were more communicative with me when I was younger.

    I made sure my daughter was well informed as she grew up. She probably knew more at seven than most 30 year olds! But I was determined to not leave her “in the dark” like I felt I was.

    One interesting point I’d like to make, too, is that, though I love to daydream and am very spiritual, I work every day and make sure the bills are paid on time. I’m a very responsible, otherworldly person!

    • HI, Anne, yes, Saturn aspects to Neptune CAN keep people grounded and paying attention to real-world demands. It’s a survival skill when you grow up in a home where you have to parent yourself, your parents, and often your siblings as well.

      Thanks to all of you who are adding to our knowledge of these aspects! Amazing sharing going on here. Donna

  11. When i was doing the Neptune test i suddenly became aware of the minor yet tight aspect Saturn and Neptune are making in my chart. A sesquiquadrate, which is an aspect i’ve never looked into before.

    Both Saturn and Neptune are strong in my chart, with Saturn being the strongest.

    Reading this post and all the comments made me sink back into the experiences i had as a child, and the accompanying energies, represented, i now realize, by this combination.

    Saturn is sitting in the 1st conjunct my Cancer ascendant (my Moon is in the 12th) and is sesquiquadrate Neptune in Sag in the 6th.

    I had a chronically ill father. I remember the day he had to be hospitalized for the first time. I was 5 and there was nothing i could do for him. After 13 years of illness he died when i was barely an adult.
    There’s much more to the story, but i’ll leave it at that.

    I feel you, LB, when you’re saying: “I frequently feel as if I’m seeing realities no one else wants to see (or deal with), and that realization makes me feel alone and out of step. ”

    Showing others my Neptunian side is something i find very challenging, almost too vulnerable to bear sometimes. But holding back, leaves me feeling crushed afterwards.

    Balancing the two realities seems to be the main theme in my life; it’s in the top 3 at least.

  12. So interesting! I saw so much of my husband J in this article and for good reason:
    J has Saturn in Gemini in the 10th house in opposition to Neptune in Sagittarius in the 4th house. They are in aspect to his Sun and Moon as well.
    His father is a (now sober) alcoholic Pisces. He left shortly after J was born and has gone on to marry four more times. J’s relationship with him has been distant to nonexistent his entire life. For J, his father was the anti role model.
    His mother is a workaholic Capricorn who has developed a serious hoarding problem over the years. Even when she was physically present while J was growing up, she was emotionally absent.
    THIS is why astrology amazes me…

    • Wow, Mari–what a perfect example of a 4th-10th house opposition from Neptune to Saturn. I could not have dreamed up a better one! And I’d be fascinated to see a hoarder’s chart if you have your mother-in-law’s data. I’d guess the sudden spate of television programs about hoarders would be related to the transiting Saturn-Pluto square. Donna

      PS for anyone who might be wondering about getting rid of big clutter, there’s an article in the Pluto-Saturn Preparedness Kit at the top of the categories called “From Clutter to Closure.”

      • Unfortunately, I don’t have my MIL’s birth time and her religion means I am unlikely to get it, but the date is 11 January 1946. An additional note: last fall she re-met someone she dated after her divorce. They are getting married in July and they are cleaning out the “storage” half of her duplex before selling it and moving to his home. I wish I had her birth data; I would love to see those house transits!

      • Mari, I couldn’t resist having a peak at the ephemeris for Jan 11, 1946. I think she has to have been born in the evening after the Moon went into Taurus. Worst case, they cannot let go of possessions, and their heirs are left clearing out the garage, attic, basement, and three storage rooms. If so, the clearing now might be a trine from Pluto in Capricorn. She also has Mars and Saturn conjunct in collectable Cancer–fear of lack drives that aspect–opposite her Capricorn Sun and squaring Jupiter in Libra. Thus a t-square. Donna

        PS. Sorry folks, we’re off topic, I know, but I’ve been curious about hoarders.

      • BTW Donna – I have a husband who is not a hoarder (yet), but who does have hoarding tendencies. Both his parents are major collectors of “stuff” and his father in particular is VERY bad. You can’t move in the garage or even the whole downstairs of his father’s home because there’s so much stuff! The upstairs living space is not quite as bad, but is slowly being encroached upon by a multitude of knicknacks, dodads, etc.

        I don’t have my FIL’s birth info, but do want to share what I think constitutes my husband’s clinginess to possessions. My husband has Saturn in Taurus in the 2nd, and if that doesn’t make one acquisitive, I don’t know what will. A sense of security and safety gained from having “things”…The Taurean influence makes him very retentive and reluctant to let go of something once he has it.

        I find I have to take a very nothreating common-sense approach with him to get him to get rid of things from time to time. We go through things periodically and I ask him things like “What is this for?” or “Why are we saving this?” and remind him that some of the things he’s “saving” haven’t been looked at, used, enjoyed, etc. for 5,6,7,8 years and have just been collecting dust……Usually that’s enough to get him to let it go without a fight.

        I do think it would be MUCH harder if there were an emotional component involved like the Moon/Cancer. On these shows you will frequently see the hoarder cry when there stuff is being removed, indicating that not only is the sense of security being upset, but that they have strong EMOTIONAL attachment to their possessions. I think that emotional component is really what differentiates “hoarders” from “collectors of stuff”.

      • Very interesting observations, Alethea. I’d say that hoarding is in a way a type of addiction/compulsion, and addictions are a progressive disease, getting worse over time. Usually they take a turn from over-use to addiction when there is some serious stressor event, like the loss of a parent or a job, divorce, or other threat to their security. With transits like the upcoming cardinal cross, and the transiting aspects that have been leading up to it (Pluto-Saturn square, Saturn-Uranus opposition), so many people have had major losses that can trigger compulsions like these. (gambling might be another)

        However, I’ve also noted this past 6 months or so the opposite tendency. So many people I know seem to be clearing away the clutter of decades of STUFF, just instinctively. It’s true of me and so many of my friends, and when I wrote an article on this blog about the Pluto-Saturn square called “From Clutter to Closure” many of the comments were from people who were doing the exact same thing. I’d venture to say that most of them weren’t doing it because of a trauma, though, but just because their instincts were telling them to cut to the basics. It’s at: http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/the-pluto-saturn-square%e2%80%94from-clutter-to-closure/

        Besides being able to live more comfortably without the clutter, there was one terrific side benefit. I cleared away a ton of stuff in about 6 weeks, all donated to various charities and thrift shops, getting receipts for all of it. The result was a total of $2500 deduction on my 2009 income tax.

  13. Hoooo boy, can I relate to this one! Another Saturn square Neptune here. Thank GOD my natal Saturn is exhalted in Libra – in a family where alcoholism and drug abuse ran rampant I am SO thankful I’ve always erred on the side of Saturn. Neptune conjuncts my Moon, both oppose Mercury and the Sun, and all four square a Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in the 12th. I’m one big T-square. I did have to grow up fast. I feel like my childhood was never idyllic and carefree and had difficulty relating to people my own age because of it. Hard to “play pretend” and flex that wonderful childhood imagination when you have to face some pretty grim realities at home. Thanks for the post, Donna. It was good to read the stories of others with similar life experiences.

    • Hi, Alethea, yes, the sharing on this article has been really profound and moving. You paint a vivid and painful picture of your youth–especially that of being with peers whose families are relatively normal. Lots of shame involved. Donna

    • Hi Alethea;-) Thanks for sharing!!! I’m also really thankful for everyone’s stories….it helps to feel a little bit more “normal” ;-)

      • Hi Samantha,

        I was very moved by your story in particular – thank you for being so open about your experiences. I wanted to add some of my astrological perspective to help explain why the trine may not seem so “benefic” for you on a surface level.

        I think it is worth considering that Saturn is also in its detriment in Leo. A common thread I have found with Saturn in Leo is often a lack of a real “childhood” – one that was burdened with far too much responsibility far too early. The natural spontaneity of Leo is constricted and almost “snuffed out” by Saturn’s harsh embrace. Having it in the fifth as well is a bit of a “double whammy”.

        Neptune in the eighth can sometimes be associated with sexual victimization at the hands of someone we trust – a secret sorrow and suffering concerning sexual matters. Remember that where Neptune is there is often a blurring and muddling lines and boudaries that occurs. Obviously your father violated both your trust and your boundaries by engaging in these terrible acts, and for that I am truly sorry.

        On the plus side, I think Neptune’s placement has helped you to grow spiritually from this aweful experience – the fact that you are so candid about your story speaks volumes in its own right. You have also stated that you look at these very difficult experience as “lessons” – I can’t think of a more beautiful and “hamonious” way Saturn and Neptune’s very opposing energies could blend.

        I also think that trine between Saturn and Neptune has helped to ground you with respect to dealing with the hard reality of this experience. Isabel Hickey said so eloquently of the 8th house “In the wake of an eigth house storm there is always a rainbow if we but lift our eyes to percieve it” This speaks of the evolutionary growth made possible out of surviving trauma.

        To look at your parental relationships in much greater detail, I would also encourage you to look at what kind of shape your 4th/10th houses and rulers are in as well as if there were “stressful” aspects to your Sun/Moon. Astrology isn’t just about picking out any one aspect in particular, but synthesizing the chart as a whole and looking for recurring themes and patterns in a multitude of places. I hope you find this information helpful and thank you again for sharing your story. Blessings to you on your journey.

    • Alethea, WOW!!!! I can’t thank you enough for your insight and kindness…. I was in tears reading what you wrote (the good kind of course;-) and thinking about how “lucky” I am to cross paths with such angels as yourself (and everyone on this blog for that matter). Sometimes when I’m down and start thinking about how much pain, sorrow and negativity, etc. there is in the world, it’s so comforting and uplifting to be able to remember that there is also an equal amount, if not more, of the opposite as well, in people like you. No matter how hard it is to share things sometimes, it’s always worth it if it helps someone else;-) Your generosity and compassion are sooooooo appreciated!!!!!!

      I’ve really been trying to teach myself about astrology, through books, articles and on a couple blogs and I definitely feel like I’m starting to get the “hang of it”…..although it’s a bit challenging to remember which house does what and where a certain planets needs to be to do what, etc. I made some cheat-sheets to help;-)

      I looked at my 4th (ruled by Sun) & 10th (ruled by Uranus & Saturn) houses and there are no planets in them, so I know that they are mainly influenced then by the ruler on their cusp. I do, however, have my Part of Fortune in the 10th (in Aquarius) which opposes my Saturn in the 5th house (Leo), so I’m thinking that may affect it somehow??? I’ve done some research on the Part of Fortune and found that “it is used to describe the basic way in which the individual is physically connected with the surrounding world. It is one of the significators of the body and health, and it is the primary significator of prosperity, and also career as it relates to prosperity.” Also, “The Part of Fortune is not so well placed if it is in a sign with malefics, especially if the malefics are debilitated. Squares, oppositions, and conjunctions with malefics are also not considered to be very good.” this is obviously what worries me, given my PoF’s placement.

      I also have my
      Sun (Gemini, 2nd house) Square Moon (Pisces, 12th house)
      Moon (Pisces, 12th house) Square Jupiter (Gemini, 2nd house)
      Sun (Gemini, 2nd house) Conjunct Jupiter (Gemini, 2nd house)
      Sun (Gemini, 2nd house) Oppose Neptune (Sag, 8th house)
      I know conjunctions can go either way, but I’m a little “cloudy” ;-) on how it works opposing my Neptune…..
      Sorry I’m getting off subject:-(

      • Welcome, Samantha. Astrology is such a complex subject that you could study it forever, but the beginning is so exciting. There are many articles on Jupiter here, so look that subject up in the search engine at the top right hand column of the page. Houses is another meaty topic. See a list of 30 articles about houses on Skywriter called Getting a Floor Plan of your Life. Donna

      • Thanks so much Donna!!!! I’ve been reading a bunch of really interesting articles on here…. there’s SO MANY!!!! I get so engrossed in reading that 5 hours will go by without even noticing;-) I REALLY appreciate all your hard work and LOVE all the insight you give!!!! Thank you!!!!

      • Delighted that you’re enjoying it, Samantha. Astrology is like that–so much to absorb, and it’s all so interesting. Donna

  14. ThankYou Very Much Donna Cunningham what You say brings more clarity and insight !!!

    I read About Cassandra the prophetess and How Apollo give her the power and how she Advised about The Troyan Horse!!!

    I have a Pluto 2nd house in Virgo Sextile Neptune 4th House in Scorpio
    with an orb of 4° !!!

    I also have predicted Devaluations in Mexico and so i think You are Right it is a Pluto Neptune Thing and i also solve some problems in job as a consultant and nobody knows how. Even me sometimes i dont know how i did it until i analize it deeply !!!

    I will also see how to direct this energy !!!

    Thank You very Much Donna Cunningham !!!

    Best Regards Everybody !!!

  15. Just re-read this article. Great insights in it and enjoyed learning all of your stories.

    Liked the reminder of Saturn being exalted in Libra, since that’s a positive. I’m another one of you with Saturn/Neptune conjunct in Libra in the 10th. With Neptune/Merc conjunct my midheaven.

    Dad was a sneaky (very Neptunian) womanizer, abused drugs and alcohol. A rags to riches (millionaire) to rags story. Loving and funny. But many difficulties.

    On the positive side of Neptune, he encouraged my interest in psychology and “deep thinking.” And even though he was a corporate executive, he had books like Jung’s “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” which is about as mystical as you can get.

    And there were positive father figures in my life like English teachers who I’d philosophize with.

    And, another positive aspect of the Sat/Nept conjunction was taking spiritual growth very seriously at a relatively early age. In H.S. getting anything I could get my hands on about mysticism, transcendence, visions, etc. Decided that if there were such a thing as samadhi, etc., I wanted it. Was an ashramite and considered being a yogic monk.

    • thanks for sharing your story, Cynthia. Fascinating, and it just rings true on so many Saturn-Neptune levels, from the womanizing alcoholic father to the spiritual teachers. Age 14-15 is when you get the opposition of transiting Saturn to natal Saturn. Donna

      • …discovering another amazing post– new to me. I see the other 1951 Boomers here and their stories ring so true.
        Born in late ’51 with MARS tucked tightly between Sat/Nep 9th, and reading these painful revelations…well, I’m getting a new perspective on the aspect. Always thought that Mars there made it even more difficult but now see how it made me a survivor.
        P.S. Thanks for your reply re my triple Saturn conjunction!–(and at such a busy moment with Erin online)…I’m taking it as a lesson asked for and willingly accepted. It will be exact later this month…so, we’ll see about that…

  16. This Saturn neptune article is just soo me, I did the tests and got 39 for saturn and 45 for neptune. I was indeed my mother’s mother since she had a nervous breakdown when I was 4 and she has been in and out of depression ever since, i had to take care of my siblings who were 11 and 14 years younger.

    My father although a pisces has been stuck in the logical box not having had a mother since 6 all his life, everything emotional and spiritual is silly and illogical to him including women =) I struggle to “fit” in even though it became apparent to me and many others that I was a psychic medium at the age of 8.

    It has been a tough struggle going down many dark holes myself trying out the victim and the martyr outfits but not liking them kept driving within to find the inspiration to lift me out of the holes, failed emotionally abusive marriage followed with nasty breakup causeing one of my daughters to go down similar hole as my mum plus a son who is an “aware aries” because of me, but like my dad if it isnt logical or have a reason he attacks it.

    A very challenging time but through it all my inner strength has grown and been my saving grace, now being an inspirational writer and spiritual development teacher. I have a strong sense of purpose which i need only myself and publicity or ego driven acknowledgments dont get my vote haha! I am being pulled towards something and dont know what it is at this time and feeling like im being held back at the same time, like being on a catapult that is still being drawn backwards.

    I am now approaching 49 and aware that saturn often delivers its rewards later in life plus feelin I have taken charge of all the demons of mind that used to drive me I look forward to the changes with enthusiasm following the breadcrumbs leading me there. It does get confusing at times but with my heart in it I feel good.

    Nice to know I am not alone though having read the others’ blogs and in good company it seems.

    Keep going other tortoises, the hare may think hes won but slow and steady wins the race,
    kind regards Debbie 22/06/61

  17. I have saturn in pisces in the 5th opposite sun and neptune in virgo in the 11th and squaring jupiter in sag in the 2nd and trine the moon in cancer in the 9th! Quite a collection of aspects.

    The one thing that stands out is the fact that my adult daughter (5th house) has rheumatoid arthritis (saturn – bones) and uses a wheelchair. She contracted the arthritis at 7 years of age.

    As for my father, he was rather distant but not cruel or abusive and I thought all fathers were like that. I always thought I bored him. Consequently, I am not comfortable around men on a one-to-one basis. I am always afraid I will bore them. In a group, I have no trouble relating and conversing with men.

    I have been happily married to my husband for 55 years and he is a loving and supporting spouse! I had no trouble relating to him.

  18. I scored 42 on the Saturn test and 30 on Neptune. There’s definitely a connection between the two in my chart. I’ve got Saturn in Pisces in the 6th trine Neptune in Scorpio in the 3rd. I’ve also got Pisces Chiron conjunct Saturn (and it also trines Neptune).

    A lot of what’s been said here really rings true for me, but I’m pretty new and still trying to figure out my own chart. I’ve got other hard aspects involving Saturn which likely reflects the difficulties I’ve had just as much as the Saturn-Neptune contact. Saturn opposes a Mars/Uranus/Pluto stellium in the 12th in my natal chart and it also opposes my Asc. When I was growing up my father was there but he wasn’t there. He was ‘away on business’ a lot – sometimes for real, sometimes busy shacking up with another woman and not wanting to come home. When he did come home he was abusive, physically, emotionally, spiritually. My mom (a Pisces sun) allowed it, in fact at times it felt like she was instigating it. The dynamic in my family was kind of like kids on the playground when someone is getting beaten up by a bully – they were so relieved that they weren’t the ones getting beaten up they just shut up, or worse egged the bully on.

    • Also, boundaries have been a life-long issue with me. It took me a long time to learn to undestand my own boundaries and feel okay with setting them – there was just no respect for them when I was growing up. But now I have to work on striking a balance – I have a tendency now to set up too many boundaries, and too extreme – they’re high walls.

      • Overdoing it on boundaries is one stage of recovering from these issues…like a reaction to a lifetime of having them infringed. There’s an article somewhere on the list of articles about boundaries on this site that’s a guest article from some psychologist who shows a diagram on the different styles of setting boundaries, and overly rigid is one of the ones he touched on. (It was an eye-opener for moi!) Use the search engine on this to find the articles on boundaries–I think it might help. Donna

  19. Thanks, Donna. I’m going to look up that article3 now. :)

  20. Thank you Donna for this and everything you write. You always reach me and have a grounding effect upon me. Also thanks to each and every one of you who replied to this piece. Wish I could hug each one of you and heal your pain. I can relate to all of it. I have a Grand Cross with Saturn, Neptune, Venus and Moon (Capricorn). Neptune is in my 8th house as well and the Moon in the 12th. Dad was an alcoholic and physically and verbally abused me, while there was no protection from my Mother at all. She would watch him get on top of me and just hold me down. She was so very cold. I have Saturn in Cancer.
    That picture Donna is the true example of “a picture is worth a thousand words”. That picture says it all.
    This article and everyone’s comments really clarifies the meaning of Saturn in challenging aspect to Neptune.
    It feels as if it’s easier for me to develop the Neptunian spiritual thing. Once an Angel came to my bedside. She told me that my faith would protect me. Neptune is part of my Grand Trine AND Grand Cross!
    The Saturnian thing I am developing now more than ever, concerning work. It feels good.
    Thank you, Guys and Hugs to you all!
    PS: Boundaries are a huge thing, too.

    • Such a lot of painful histories with parents with these Saturn-Neptune aspects…I honestly think that they and Pluto-Saturn aspects can be some of the most difficult. How beautiful that an angel came to you….it must have helped so much. We can all call on Archangel Michael for protection. He hears and sends help. Donna

  21. This is a very interesting and very nice article you wrote.

    Thank you for that=-)

    I have Saturn in Leo(2nd/3rd h cusp) trine Neptune in Sagittarius (6th h)

    My mother was always a binge drinker and always had some sort of physical/emotional illness. She claimed that she wanted her children to be independant, but it seems like she was always criticising and controlling me. I never felt like I could be myself, though she did also pay some nice compliments as well. I was neglected, and I think emotionally abused. When I was 5 I shut down emotionally and my mother took me to a psychiatrist. She also made my older sisters(one who was only 11) take care of me alot when I was a baby.

    My step-father(the man who raised me), (my real father was not a very nice person, to put it lightly)was a bipolar alcoholic artist who cheated on and left my mother repeatedly up until I was about 13, when he left her permanently. He was passive aggressive and I think he resented me growing up.

    There’s very little of my childhood that I remember though.

    So, I guess that aspect has quite and impact doesn’t it?
    I always thought that it just meant artistic and/or musical ability. Or that the person could bring illusion into the material world or vice versa.

    Thank you for adding a new perspective to this=-)

    Sincerely,
    Robin

  22. Hi! I have Neptune and Saturn in conjunction (in the 12th house). Also conjunct the Ascendant. How has it worked in my life (I am 58 now)? Well, I have felt myself as having two sides in me, sometimes taking turns, other times working simultaneously. Conscientious and serious, but with the feel of not walking but hovering above the ground. My parents enjoyed me being reliable, yet they often repeated “descend from the clouds!”. Physically, I have a frame of an athlete, but an ever present dreamy Neptunian look in my eyes. To the outside world I like to show my competence and reliability, but in my inner world I am basking in my dreams, idealism, and imagination. Even though I feel better in my Neptunian side of the brain, I constantly felt Saturn’s presence, who made sure I would not get lost. And in everything I have done, despite of how serious the job was, I absolutely needed to imbibe it with idealistic, imaginative elements. And, if I am not mistaken, other people saw me as being of both worlds. Working in the field of art, these two planets I guess give me their contribution in terms of inspiration/imagination and the job-being-done. According to the Myers-Briggs test, I am an INFJ, an introverted intuitive feeler, which I guess is indicative for Neptune and Saturn contact in the house of the unconscious, and the fact that I primarily work from my intuitive side.
    Thanks, glad to share my insights with you.

  23. Donna,
    This is one of your posts that I keep returning to–one of the tags I keep on my bulletin board–and not only because of my own Saturn/Mars/Neptune in Libra but because I am facinated by how clearly, calmly, and succinctly these posters state their stories.
    Their natural ‘self-editing’ is so clearly Saturnian and in amazing contrast to the Uranian posts of late…(See you answered 11 of the Uranus transit questions,–good show!).
    Best, Berta

    • Thanks, Berta, I do think I have a pretty good handle on that subgeneration from knowing so many of them, but I also find the heart-felt sharing in the comment section very moving. As you may know, I have a monthly advice column in Dell Horoscope Magazine, and I seem to get several letters each month from readers of that era, especially now that their second Saturn return is coming. I really should reprint an article I wrote about the second Saturn return for your group–unless I already have? Donna

      • Wow, that would be a great article. I mentioned once before that those of us born the end of 1951 are getting not only the Saturn return to this whopper—but our progressed Saturns Rx are there also. A triple (?) conjunction…and all square natal Uranus and op. natal Jupiter, blah, blah.
        Nailed to that Cardinal Cross!
        Thanks, have a fine day. B

  24. I have been seeing a man with Neptune Saturn conjunct in Libra. He just turned 58. My Venus is conjunct these two planets. It hasn’t been easy. I was lured to be with him because he plans to sail around the world. He’s a Cancer with moon in Pisces. I have a water trine. Makes sense I guess. Anyway, I found it too challenging. I just got out of the relationship. I found he was always frustrated and angry. And yes, he had a very tough childhood. Mother was an alcoholic his father was a a combat fighter in the military. This man was always getting into fights and ended up on the streets doing drugs. He was an alcoholic through his marriage. He lately has become interested in spirituality and says he is a changed man. However, he was never happy and seemed to be slowly blaming me for his unhappiness. I really could feel for this man and this was my downfall. My love couldn’t make him better. I wished it could have worked out but I have tried in the past to stay and make things work out and this is never the case. He projected his stuff onto me and became very hard on me. He seemed to talk a lot about doing things but procrastinated a lot. Being a Virgo I couldn’t handle this. Anyway, I guess having Saturn transit my Venus isn’t a good time to fall in love or at least not with someone whose Saturn is conjunct my Venus.

  25. Hi Donna I found this site while googling Saturn return. Wonderful and helpful information – thank you. I’ve Saturn 22 47 and Neptune 22 04 in Libra both Rx. I wasn’t particulary happy for years but now have just moved (July 1st) to a home with a yoga room where I teach classes. I love it and now feel content. Having read some of the information I believe the Saturn/Neptune conjunction gives me the ability to stay grounded, usually, in my yoga practice and have the growing ability to expand my awareness safely. Life is good!

  26. I seem to be a little late with my discovery of this blog, but in case anyone is still following this I wanted to say THANK YOU all for sharing! Just started learning about astrology about a week ago, so blogs like this help immensely. I have Saturn square Neptune, and square Sun at the same time as Neptune and Sun are in tight conjunction (orb of 0.01). My Sun/Neptune are also in conjunction with my MC and I scored a 69 in your Neptune test… So the issues you describe are all very real to me.

    I grew up with an abusive mother and a “weak” father who is a mystic/ spiritual seeker (Neptunian as well). Always felt that I was standing on the edge of a precipice into nothingness, and many times very nearly fell into it. Psychosomatic illnesses that required hospitalisation, anorexia, self-harming, drug abuse – the works! Have become much more centered after making peace with my parents and actually communicating with them. The day my parents left after our most groundbreaking, healing time together (we live on opposite side of the globe, so don’t catch up much), I broke my neck in a freak accident. Uranus in my MC at the precise moment. Go figure …

    • Sarah, thanks for your story. Didn’t you just feel, reading other people’s stories about this aspect, that you were all kin of some kind? Donna Cunningham

  27. I have the sextile. It was a difficult childhood, but as I grow older, it’s become easier to deal with the fact that my family’s not perfect. Mother wanted romance, father didn’t care. We didn’t see them happy together but they were together. Father left mother during my sister’s lunar and saturn return. We grew up with them together but our father was distant/aloof and mother was depressed and emotionally abusive. My older sister and I both have our moons in the 12th house squaring our suns in the third. We had each other and we love each other more now that we’re older. I wonder if she has this saturn-neptune placement, too. I didn’t notice. She has moon in capricorn and sun in aries. Supposed to be a powerful combination but I was the one who would take care of our pyschosomatic mother, financially and physically. She didn’t care. I have always been ambitious and I could say my dreams are slowly coming true. Very slow. Success isn’t luck for me. Dreams should be acted up. Saturn reminds me that. It’s frustrating but you have no choice but to act because saturn in libra has ways to make you optimistic but if you become proud and optimistic, neptune in sag, nothing happens or you fall. Libra is a very good saturn. I’m currently in my first saturn return. Things are very slow. Neptune wants it fast, saturn wins. I am loving saturn probably because I have no earth planets except for my ascendant and MC. I have Mars trine saturn, so it seems natural to like it.

  28. I only just found this article, and it really speaks to me. I may be two years late, but I couldn’t resist commenting. I have a trine from Neptune in the 4th (Scorpio, conjunct Mercury and the South Node; my parents both suffered from physical illnesses that eventually degenerated into serious mental illnesses) to Saturn in the 8th (Pisces, conjunct Chiron, at the top of a Grand Cross with six other planets). At the age of eleven, I realized that I was the sanest and most adult person in the house. By the time I ran away at 17, I was the parent – cleaning, taking care of younger sister, etc. I’ve been the responsible adult ever since, and somehow I seem to collect all these people who seem so sane at first, but then go downhill. (Lest you think it’s just my poor judgment, I should say that my wife was completely sane when we met, but years later was hit by a car and suffered brain damage. That kind of downhill.)

    So, yes, even with the trine, what you say fits very well. And yet, and yet … I do feel the positive side of the Saturn/Neptune aspect, and its name is spiritual discipline. That’s what I turned to in order to dig myself out of the hole, and it turned out to be more than just an emergency lifeline. It became a pole from earth to sky, a way of life, a staff to hold me up when anything gets tough (and with that Grand Cross, tough is part of my life). I’ve always said that although Saturn is so often the bad guy, a Saturn trine – to anything – is a great gift, because it gives the ability to be disciplined about the contacted planet’s gift. Trining my South Node, it gave me the ability to walk away from the past. Trining my Mercury, it made me a writer. Trining my Neptune, it made me a shaman. That’s gotta count for something.

    Maybe the difference between the trine and sextile is not that we get off any easier with life circumstances, but that we have a wider opportunity to find the backhanded gift in the curse.

    • Raven, thank you so much for your story–it adds to the experiential knowledge of this tough aspect for all of us, especially your thoughts on the trine. Though it was posted 2 years ago, I know it still resonates with the people like yourself who stumble across it and helps us all to sort out what the aspect entails. Regards, Donna Cunningham

  29. I have Sag Neptune in 7th house squares Virgo Saturn in 4th house, thus Saturn squares my gemini ascendant. My mother is aloof for a mother— my father, God bless his soul, was a drifter. He had a very successful business but was lured with drugs by bad company who sucked all his fortune; he lived the rest of his life penniless. Funny, he was a virgo.
    My mother a cancer, is distant and holds her emotions at bay—never affectionate, or just doesn’t know how to show it. To me at least. I also have moon 1st house opposite neptune and venus7th house.

    • Thanks for adding your story, Jane. It sounds painful. Isn’t it eerie, though, how similar the stories given in this comment section are. Despite externals that are different, the internal lack of parental stability and nurturing are so much alike. Donna

  30. Hi Donna, Everyone

    I am really late finding this article but just wanted to say thank you for writing it and sharing your life stories and insights. It is an inspiration and brings hope – a light at the end of a (quite dark currently) tunnel.

    I have Saturn, Moon/Venus, Neptune T-square in my 12-9-3rd houses and natal Pluto widely conjunct my Libra AC making tight aspects to all planets in this T-square (all other planets in my chart are involved in another T-sq). The issues mentioned here with the parents, boundaries, and feeling invisible and unheard all ring very true for me too – alcoholic father, victim/ martyr mother, taking care of the household and my little brother – all very Saturn/Neptune. I also find the external vs. internal image or perception of yourself works similar in my case. Most people find me very serious, organised, responsible and only very rarely they realise (or I let them see) that I have another, very dreamy, imaginative side. Having Uranus opp Sun/Mercury conjunction, I have found it very difficult to relate to my Neptune in the past. I am only now beginning to appreciate how intuitive I am and all the positives of tapping into the ‘irrational’.

    With transiting Pluto squaring my ASC and approaching IC, transiting Uranus conjunct my DSC and Pluto-Saturn in mutual reception, I feel as if I am being pulled (or pushed) in several directions all at once. At times, I sense there is a purpose to it and the Universe wants me to do something, go somewhere but I am still feeling clueless as to what/where that might be. I suppose Neptune transiting my other T-square would only add to the confusion?!

    If anyone has any insights, resources or advice on dealing with these transits, I would sincerely appreciate!

    • I’m glad you found this discussion, Coincidence. Just sharing your experiences and insights alone is healing. Donna

  31. My Father has a Saturn – Neptune opposition. He also has numerous contacts between his Saturn/Neptune with his inner planets: Moon – Neptune opposition, Venus – Saturn opposition, Venus – Neptune conjunction, Mars trine Saturn, and Mars sextile Neptune.

    Unfortunately he does not know the time he was born.

    His mother died due to alcohol related reasoning while young, while his father was murdered.

    My Father is an amazing man, who sadly has the disease of addiction (heroin). He was an addict far before my conception. He has constantly relapsed. While he is an addict, I hope he eventually comes out as a trouper for HIMSELF (as he’s already been to Hell and back).

    Either way, I’ve been learning to make peace with his sickness and that the decision for him to persevere is not up to me, nor will any of my actions or change that. Your article has been conducive towards that path. Thank you.

  32. Saturn trines my Neptune. As Neptune is the most heavily-aspected planet in my chart, I think this is a good thing. I always had a line I wasn’t willing to cross to be “cool” re: substance experimentation, and I’ve always known my limits when it came to alcohol and was more than happy to heed them. I may be wrong, but it seems Saturn’s influence is playing a part here (especially as my Saturn is in Pisces)?

    • Absolutely, Linnea, the trine would help in setting limits like these. Donna

  33. I have Saturn in Taurus (2nd) squaring my Neptune in Aquarius (11th), and while my dad did travel for work a lot, my home life was typically harmonious, my family’s been supportive of me, and my parents are very responsible, which is a big contrast from many other people (my moon in Libra is VERY well aspected).

    However, I am a magnet for a lot of people with abusive parents, especially abusive, possessive, or negligent mothers. I’m everyone’s shoulder to cry on. Usually, I don’t mind this, but I have a very hard time disconnecting from my friends’ problems (probably because of my Pisces ascendant, Virgo Sun, and heavily aspected Neptune, Pluto, and Moon).

    I’m just glad I have a grand trine between Mars (Leo, 5th), Pluto (Sagittarius, 9th), and my ascendant, and another grand trine between my Saturn (Taurus, 2nd), Midheaven (Sagittarius), and Sun (Virgo-Leo cusp, 6th). It gives me lots of strength and willpower..

    • Thanks, Pablo. It’s interesting how that worked out, because Neptune in the 11th would focus it on friendships. There are lots of articles on boundaries here on
      Skywriter that you might find useful, and I think even one on Neptune in the 11th and boundaries. Try looking for them on the search engine for this site, a box on the upper right hand corner. Donna

  34. Neptune/Saturn conj on my ascendent, which squares Uranus on my mid-heaven. Fortunately Jupiter trines and a Mars/Pluto conj sextiles the Asc, providing optimism and inner strength. Life events always occur when planets aspect by transit, progression or solar arc, these angles, but especially Saturn. Both parents were born and raised in extreme poverty (1930’s Depression). Dad went into the military at age 17 and was gone a lot during my childhood. At age 7, my youngest sibling died, at which time Mom fully vacated any emotional attachment to me. I have an Out of Bounds 8th house Moon in Gemini which makes me very sensitive. But with only one planet in Water, I have to make an effort to find outlets for it. From the outside our family looked normal but conflict or anger were not allowed. I recall going to summer camp as a child and never wanting to return home. Both parents have slipped into dementia/alzhiemer’s and it was I, not my surviving sibling, that took the necessary steps to see that they were placed in care. It has taken years of therapy and spiritual searching to begin to learn some balance.

    • Thank you for sharing that, Kimberly. A tough story–very much the essence of a Neptune-Saturn family life…not the details, but the hardship and lack of solid, stable parenting. Donna

  35. Dear Donna I know this is few years old discussion… I found it while I was looking for meaning of T-square : Neptune and Mars in opposition and both square Saturn in my natal chart and was hoping I might ask for your help when it comes to revealing it’s meaning and how to deal with such energy. I have Saturn in Virgo in 12th house square Neptune in Sagittarius in 3rd house and Mars in Gemini in 9th house. There is also Moon-Neptune conjunction ( Moon in Sag.at the very end of the 3rd house ).
    Thanks for your help,
    Tasha

  36. Very relevant article, Donna.

    I have Saturn(4th House) conjunct Neptune(3rd House) conjunct my IC…. and yes I grew up the hard way – with an absentee father and a very bitter mother who was dependent on her financially controlling parents.

    Reading you accurate articles is very healing and self-validating. Thanks for your help.

  37. I’ve got a whole stellium in capricorn (uranus, neptune, saturn loosely conjunct) dumped in sixth house with Sagittarius on the cusp. You say people with stelliums in particular houses invest a lot of themselves in that area. It’s true I don’t see how I can stop myself from doing that. My work life is confusing with changes I often don’t see coming even though I normally have good fore-sight. It, in fact, needs a lot more attention that I am ready or able to give.
    I have a lot of helpful aspects to all three planets yet I find myself unable to keep a job for more than 9 months because I feel pulled by forces all around me to another job. I’ve been in 3 corporate companies and have done 3 or 4 murky jobs that were either for businesses that hadn’t even been registered or freelancing jobs. Only two of them are similar, everything else was too different to put down on a respectable resume. :P
    Despite all of that, with every job I took, I had at least one big moment when the direction of my life completely changed. For example, my first job lead me to abandon my field of expertise all together as I realized I was wrong about my purpose. Th second job had me facing one of my biggest fears and conquering it. The third one lead me to astrology and tarot reading (fun fact: uranus transiting retrogade was conjuncting my neptune when this happened). Ordinarily, this wouldn’t qualify as a life-changing moment but coming from an orthodox christian background where astrology is considered the devil’s practice meant I had to redefine myself. I quit that job and took on 2 or 3 part time jobs (freelance) including writing astro-psychological profiles for people. It helped me redefine myself, construct basis for a new philosophy I could lean on and ‘come out’ about the new me.
    I have always been a true plutonian changing and transforming consciously ever since I could remember. But ever since I started working, change has been exponential in such a short amount of time. Right now, I’m still a little lost (transiting uranus is still hanging around my stellium). I have changed so much so fast I’m not familiar with myself. I still find myself using old labels to describe myself even though it no longer holds true.
    I still do not know what my purpose is but I do instinctively know that the journey is way more important. To me the journey seems to be like this crash-course of many karmic lessons packed into one lifetime. Sometimes I think my work life is just a front; what it actually is, is a platform for spiritual growth.

    p.s. i know the post is years old but I really felt driven to share my experience especially knowing your interest in stelliums.

    • Hi, Sage, I have been especially concerned with your group with Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus conjunct. That conjunction last happened 625 years ago, and every single person born on the planet in 1989 had it (138 million), plus 5 months of 1988. Why you collectively have decided to come back to earth at this time is an important question. I devoted a chapter to this group in my new book, The Stellium Handbook, and it has lots of tools for self-awareness and sorting out stresses. As an astrologer coming out of that generation, I think you can be extremely helpful to your peers. Will write to you privately. Donna Cunningham.

      • End of 4th house Scorpio Neptune here, T-square 8th house Saturn in Aquarius opposed 2nd house Leo Sun conjunct Venus in 1st, which also squares Neptune. My 9th house Pisces Moon conjunct Chiron trines Neptune. Cancer ascendant.

        My dad had Pluto conjunct Mars and my mom had Pluto opposed Mars. My dad was a drunken bully and my mom was a sensitive drug addict. My dad left by the time I was 11 for another woman. It was probably for the best, my mom was the nurturing parent.

        For me, my greatest gift was my child. Very gifted and a beautiful soul. I always told him I tried to be the parent I wanted. I had to do it alone but remained on mostly friendly terms with my child’s father and he worked so I had a meager child support check paid in a timely manner. I have Uranus, Mercury and Pluto conjunct at the end of house 2 and into house 3 so I crave my independence. I was allowed to raise my child alone in the best manner I could. I am grateful. I have Aries Jupiter in 10th house trine Sun, my dad was a gifted scientist and high ranking military officer but I only barely knew the drunken tyrant. Moon trines my Neptune, my mother was a beautiful soul but unfortunately severely drug addicted.

        I always say astrology saved my life. It explains everything the more I learn about it and never stops fascinating me. I use it to understand others and I always end up learning something new. I am proud to say I am only able to function as a self employed, independent, eccentric in my own four walls. My son has a grand cross and attends a well known university on a full academic scholarship. He began studying a foreign language in middle school and has completed 2 graduate courses. He is about to turn 19 and is preparing to move to France where he has been accepted to a university for a semester abroad in his language immersion program. I know he will be safe because I have already visited the area years before he was born.

        For me, the birth chart is just like a map of my life. My solar return chart for my coming birthday has an emphasized 9th house. I am really looking forward to visiting him over there.

        Thank you, Donna!

  38. From Mexico (Northern Mexico)

    I have the Saturn-Neptune Conjuction (and Uranus doing a lighter conjunction) in Capricorn (Tropical chart) and Saggitarius (Sidereal chart) in 7th House, and damn, i do have a hard time feeling happy on work, except if i do nothing, or rest in the workplace (if it has one that i can find), cause i do concentrate on the work, and later i want to rest without being interrupted, cause if they do, it make me angry (seriously I need to rest after doing a work on the workplace), and can’t tolerate repeating the same thing, like going to work on 7:00 AM to 5:00 PM, get stagnating for me and makes me to retire of that place after wards, and later to repeal every job offering they do to me.

    seem that the essence of Saturn and neptune don’t get along very well on that part, except solidifying spirituality, but more than that, nope.

    • Hola, Pedro. Your Saturn-Neptune conjunction is a special case, as it is a triple conjunction of three of the slower-moving planets, Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus. This is a rare occurrence that only happens at about 625-year intervals. Every single person born on the planet in about 1988-90 had this combination in their charts, but of course with individual differences in the house placement and aspects between other planets. Those born in winter months of those years may have as many as 5-6 planets in Capricorn.

      It would help you to learn more about this combination in your chart, which you can do at another of my blogs, http://www.capricornstellium.com. There is also a group on Facebook just for your generation. You are not alone in finding difficulties with work and other important issues like relationships. Donna Cunningham


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