Posted by: Donna Cunningham | August 18, 2011

Born 1951–1953? 2nd Saturn Return Blog is Open!

©8-11 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

 Were you born sometime between 1951 and 1953, while Saturn was intermittently within an 8° range of a conjunction to Neptune? (For most of you, both Saturn and Neptune are in the sign Libra, but for some Saturn is in Scorpio, though still within 8° of Neptune in Libra.)

If so, your second Saturn return is coming, off and on, between September 2011 and September 2012. Saturn takes about 28-29 years to orbit the Sun and come back to the sign and degree it was when you were born. That’s referred to as a Saturn return. The first return happens in your late 20s, and the second happens between 58-60.

For your particular age group, this may well be a challenging period, because you were born with a mixture of Saturnian and Neptunian qualities, and this is a period when you’ll be reassessing how well they work together.   

Give yourself time to face and address the major issues and life patterns that Saturn-Neptune conjunction has meant over the years, so that this does not have to be a time when they come to a head in a negative way. Instead, you can use it productively to conquer some of your barriers and build a more solid foundation for your senior years. 

Mimi Boothby, CJ Wright, and I have created a new resource, the 2nd Saturn Return Blog. There will be articles, free downloads, and group discussions on that blog to help you understand the issues at stake in this especially intense second Saturn return. As of today, it’s officially open—if you’re in that age group, drop on by.  If you know anyone who fits, pass the word along.   

Note to younger readers: Are you having your FIRST Saturn return? That would be age 28-29, born with Saturn in Libra during 1980-83. The articles on Saturn in Libra will apply to you, and it’s good to know what house is affected.

Otherwise, the rest of this project is not for you because you don’t have Neptune conjunct Saturn. Instread, many of you were born with Pluto conjunct Saturn, no picnic either. Visit http://saturnsisters.com/ with the Saturn Sisters: Sherene Schostak and Stefanie Iris Weiss, resident astrologers. Order a Saturn return report and have a look at their book, Surviving Saturn’s Return.

UPDATE: 10/29/2011.  In case you think you’re facing this life passage alone, I’m delighted to report that we’ve had well over a million page hits on the Second Saturn Return blog already! Now what we need to get the discussion going is for more of you to share your journey by visiting  2nd Saturn Return Blog.

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Responses

  1. Born 12/31/1953, with Saturn and Neptune 12 degrees apart. But I am having Pluto conjunct natal Sun along with the second Saturn return. I am expecting lots of fun!

  2. Donna, thanks for the promotion of Saturn Sisters. I am the manager of saturnsisters.com! I’ll pass this post along to Stefanie and Sherene.

    • Glad to do it, Katie., The 1st Saturn return–the group with Saturn & Pluto conjunct in Libra–is no picnic either, but I felt that S&S had it ably covered. Donna

      PS. There’s a typo on the email post. Should be http://2ndSaturnReturn.wordpress.com.

  3. I’m checked in and ready to go!

  4. 3/13/53. Saturn/Neptune 2nd house oppose Venus/Mars 8th house.I feel changes in the works!

  5. perfect match.

  6. Aw shucks, would have been fun to participate. Oh well, I’ll just have to wait 29 years… ;)
    Thanks for the SS link, will check it out!

  7. My Saturn in Libra/Neptune in Scorpio is 9 degrees apart, am I still in for it? Born 11/28/1953

    Nanette

    • Have a look at the articles on the 2ndSR blog and see if they help you deal with the Saturn return. Donna

  8. My husband was born Nov. 6th 1952 and has Saturn and Neptune two degrees apart in the tenth house. This next year or so, he will have both his second Saturn return and a Jupiter return. I wonder what those together mean? Not to mention that Pluto will be in his first house eventually because it is nearing the first house cusp now. I wish I knew what all this means for him and how I can be supportive during these transits.

    • It’s actually quite common, as that’s a place/age where the Jupiter cycles and Saturn cycle coincide. It was great for me when it happened, and I figure it’s the place where AGE meets WISDOM. A nice boost for digesting life experience. Donna

  9. I was born in ’64 with Saturn in the last degree of Aquarius. I’ve been experiencing transitting Neptune going back-and-forth over my Saturn. Any pointers from the natal Saturn/Neptune folks?

  10. I’m December 18, 1951 and I am checked in and ready to go! My second Saturn return has been so cruel. Can’t wait to discuss!

  11. My husband is particpating in his second saturn return…. and boy am I suffering for it !!!!

  12. Please comment on 3rd Saturn return (19 Libra, 9th house, ruler of 4th and 9th square Venus in Capricorn (16 degrees)
    Thank you, Elena

    • Welcome, Elena! It’s grand to hear from a 3rd Saturn return person. With Venus and Saturn tied together twice in your chart (Saturn in Libra + a Venus-Saturn aspect), you must be the very epitome of aging gracefully.

      Here’s how I would explain the three Saturn returns – each is the culmination of a stage of maturation, focused in the areas of life represented by the house Saturn is placed in natally and by natal Saturn’s aspects. Saturn represents important roles we play, and so the return may focus on adjusting to those roles. It is also a mini life review, an interval in which we ask ourselves and are asked by our surroundings,” how am I doing?”

      At the first Saturn return (age 28-29), you are beyond a doubt fully adult, and faced with major personal and vocational choices and their consequences – commitments, responsibilities, and the limitations they entail. In other words, you focus on your roles. You may have to play catch up if you have been neglecting the positive qualities of Saturn, such as structure; discipline; desire for quality and accomplishment; maturity; authority; perseverance; and realism.

      At the second Saturn return (age 58-60), you are likely to have completed your responsibilities in those adult roles. You now need to assess whether they still serve you and to begin planning for your senior years as Saturn’s cycles continue to evolve. So there may be sadness as those roles draw to a close and anxiety about providing for yourself as a senior. You face the consequences of choices you made around the time of the first return, and you come to terms with your personal limitations and the limitations of significant others.

      Although I have no experience with the third Saturn return (86-88), I would imagine that it is another life review, with ample time to ponder how we’ve done in our lines and to reap the rewards and benefits of service provided to our families and communities. It is a time of fully emerging as an elder with experience that can benefit others. And, yes, increasing limitations may cause us to spend time seemingly idle and alone, but it can be a time of grace at a life well spent.

      But you know this better than I, so I’d love to hear what your experience is. Donna

  13. Born 5-9-53 Saturn 22 Libra, Neptune 21 Libra both conjunct ascendant., Its been interesting so far, staying positive. Pluto will activate Grand T-square within the next year, empty house 4th.This will involve Neptune, Saturn Uranus and Venus, all on angular houses. wake me when its over :)
    meantime staying positive.

  14. My mother-in-law recently turned 89. She and I both have our Saturn in Libra at 13 degrees. How ironic! Curiously, for her 3rd Saturn return and my 2nd return, we both went through a similar experience. Her son, my husband, died during our returns! My natal Saturn is in my 8th house. She has a stellium in Cancer, but I have no idea which house. She is extremely Cancerian with a very round face and milky white skin. Obviously, her Saturn in Libra squares her stellium. She lost her mother in child birth when she was 4 years old. Knowing this, I put her Saturn in the 3rd 4 degrees from her IC. It seems to work.

    My father-in-law has his 3rd return in November. They are real party people who travel alot and have basically lead charmed lives. Truly, I have never seen them as being of service to anyone but themselves in the over 30 years I’ve known them.

    • a very sad Saturn return for both of you. I was born on my father’s Saturn return and his father’s second Saturn return – that is to say, my Saturn, my father Saturn, and my grandfather Saturn are all within a few degrees. Donna

  15. I,m born 8 sept 1953. My Neptune has a tight square from Uranus and my Saturn a tight trine from Jupiter. My life is a serie of sudden losses and diappointments but I,ve survived and have lerned a lot from it.

  16. What about us who were born earlier e.g. 1942? By your reckoning are we supposed to be dead? Irrelevant? Obsolete? Fade away?

    • Those of us born in 1942–myself included–had our second Saturn return 10 years ago, in 2001-2, while Saturn was in Gemini. A lot of us did a lot of belated growing up then and moved on with our lives, into exploring the possibilities of seniorhood. If you’re still struggling, a decade later, with the issues that came up back then, you probably need more help than an astrology article can give you. It is NOT all about you. Donna

      • thank you for your response, Donna. It most definitely IS all about me. As the Sufi’s say to know yourself is to know the world. Its not all about you is a tired, worn, threadbare, cliched platitude that Americans nourish themselves on. Like ‘get over it’ and recommending therapy for everything including a flat tyre etc. I guess you have to have something to replace real thought.

  17. I will say Richard that it doesn’t make much sense to join a blog about Saturn Returns and be pettish that it isn’t applying to you – you are SO LUCKY not to be in this phase of your life !!!

    Maybe it would be helpful to have someone take a look at your chart and identify the shifts that are taking place for you at this time (?) Astrodienst offers free access to software you can use to map your birthchart, and free access to ephemeris information which you can use to map out how the planets have moved through your chart over the years. I find this a better way to come to understanding of the shifting territory of my life than going for readings – who knows your history better than you ! JMHO http://www.astrodienst.com – if you are interested, you can explore the ‘Free Horoscopes’ under ‘Horoscope Drawings and Calculations’ – there is a huge range of information there.

    My post :
    I was born October 20, 1952 : In Libra, in the 3rd House I have Saturn 19 02 ; Neptune 21 47 ; Sun 26 47. At the same time as this Second Saturn Return is impacting my third house planets, Pluto is transiting Mars conjunct Chiron in Capricorn in the 5th house. Aaaah !

    For me it is clearly a watershed period : that is, I know I will look back on it one day and see I made substantial significant changes, but in the moment I am struggling mightily with exhaustion and isolation (which feels right and needed but is also extreme and lonely). If I rest enough (all the time I’m not working), I find my creative impulse surfaces and I can follow it with wonderful results : poetry, deep inner healing work, artwork : processing the deep past, connecting with both spirit and darkness, falling in pieces and learning to communicate with and nurture parts of myself and my experience that I never saw as having personhood until now. It is one of the most difficult periods I have had in my life : huge losses one after another in the past few years, but I am finding joy in my continuing inner relationships with who and what I have loved and lost, and the unlived parts of me who are coming to light . . . finding my way back into the world with one very small step after another. Don’t want to lose this precious depth, or expend it unwisely in relationship with others who are not doing their own work. . .
    I’m very interested to hear how this might resonate with others . . . .

    Thank you all for sharing so openly –
    – Gail

    • Dear wondrous1vermont, Yes I was pettish in my response and how diplomatically Libran you are to point it out without the abrasive sting. Also your choice of word pettish. I don’t know if such a word formally exists but it too takes the sting out of petty. I was all of that and more. Born in 1942, October 17 I am now one of the senior generation and like any sensitive senior, am annoyed at being ‘invisible’. The same way I saw seniors when I was young: invisible and irrelevant. So my angry hair trigger response came from there. Later, more awake I recognised my “pettishness”. I too feel your exhaustion. The loneliness not so much. Its taken me almost till now to be comfortably alone. I know, loneliness and aloneness are not the same thing. I cherish my aloneness. I have a son 18 who lives with me and a daughter 14 who won a scholarship to a private boarding school. I am ‘retired’ so don’t have to work. Thank God as I wouldn’t have the energy. Anyway, I enjoy free time more than money.
      Thanks for your lead to Astrodienst. I check the daily readings but don’t yet have the skills to deal with charts, ephemeris and the like. But I did enjoy reading, rereading your blog. I’m more than a little uncomfortable with these public airings. But then if I hadn’t had the first I would not have made contact with you. Anyway, all the best for 2012 and infinity and beyond…
      Richard

      • Thanks,Richard, for your kind and sensitive response. I do also contend with this sense of having aged-out in becoming a senior (largely against my will!) – having become invisibile – except that I am starting to see also that there is also a way in which I am valued curiously as a wonderful relic of basic wisdom – little do they know that only through living hell do we arrive at this !! – and possibly even as a reliquary of something precious that I am utterly unconscious of which feels necessary for the validation of the soul life of younger people. You were lucky enough to be imbued with the amazing generousity and social cooperation of the 40’s – and saw it disappear dishearteningly – but you carry some meaning you may not even know yet . . . and will only see through others’ eyes . . . Luckily you have almost-adult kids, as they will grow to see you in this way and revive your inner wellspring . . .

      • Thank you, Richard. It takes heart to apologize. Donna

  18. I was born on November 26, 1952 at 3:30 a.m. I am experiencing my 2nd Saturn return and I also believe I have a Jupiter return coming up. My Saturn in my natal chart is in my 1st house. Can you give me some insight on what to expect. Thank you.

  19. My son was born 12.34 am Friday 13, August 1993 in Canberra, Australia. Now 18 he is about to enter university, a preliminary course to prepare him for university proper next year as his high school grades were so low. His lights seem to be coming on slowly, as did mine – the curse of the late bloomer. Can you help with some thoughts on direction appropriate, suitable, harmonious etc for him. I don’t want to guide a square peg into a round hole sort of thing. Thanks.

    • As I said elsewhere on this site, I’m a bit late to the party. I do hope you already have had a more timely answer. But just in case… Regarding that birthdate, my dad was a Fri 13 Aug. Nice, brilliant, artistic, but set his own needs aside to raise a brother during the Depression. Followed by me and my brother. These, I think, are characteristics at the personal psychological level.

      But as a Boomer (64 in two weeks) now I’m far more interested in the Big Picture. The generational effects as revealed in the archetypes of the outer planets. So I’ve just finished reading Richard Tarnas’s book “Cosmos and Psyche” which is an intense, scholarly revelation of the outer planets through history. BTW, Tarnas wrote “The Passion of the Western Mind,” a masterpiece on philosophy and intellectual history. He’s come out of the astrological closet, so to speak.

      The vital message vis a vis your question? The Uranus/Neptune conjunction centered in 1993! Tarnas calls the Uranus archetype Promethean. Think in Jungian terms like puer or Coniunctio. Or Teilhard’s Noosphere. Or the positive aspects of the internet– connections. Then add Neptune. With spirituality as depth within and as cosmic. Far, far beyond sectarianism or any narrow identity. Yeah, we’re all affected. But these kids were BORN with the knowledge we had to struggle for. For them, education will truly be a matter of the original meaning of the word: educare, to draw out.

      BTW, one of my closest friends is a Jesuit born in 1942. An alignment much more concilatory then for us Boomers. It seems you’re bridges; able to see the worthwhile aspects of tradition and culture without becoming bogged down by its influence. And able to articulate what is of worth as a gift from the past to the future.

      • Dear Rafi, thanks for your comments. Will follow up on some of the things you mentioned and reply again more fully later. I was so surprised to hear from you. I put that enquiry back in February and having no response, thought it had gone cold as a dinosaur egg. And suddenly, poof! there you are! What you propose about him seems on the money. He is very quiet, deep, spiritual and self contained…not at all like the stuff you read about Leos dancing about with lampshades on their heads… figuratively speaking. I’m sure you know what I mean, extroverts, flamboyant and so on. Again, thanks for your insights and response. Will get back to you again. Regard, Richard.

  20. I was born 30 Oct 1953 and is facing the 2nd saturn in libra coming Nov. 2012. I would like to understand how this will impact my life and which particular aspect of live would be affected.

    • That’s what the new blog is for, Kammy, so do go have a look. Donna

  21. Who knew? As I head toward my second Saturn return, I find myself, once more, in a dark wood. I assumed the 1st return, in which I entered a dark wood and began a journey of individuate on, was THE journey and I did individuate and became more my authentic self. I thought this was the journey Jung and Dante spoke of and that I had mastered it. But now as the 2nd return looms, once again I find myself in a dark wood. But at least I’ve been thru a similar journey and thus know I can/need surrender to it. I can stop thrashing about now and resign myself to the fact that I am, indeed, once again, lost in a dark wood.

    • Lost in the dark… oh, do I recognize that place! Wait; a way out? Nope, lost again. It’s not depression; feelings would be something– but there is nothing. Like what western Christians call the “Dark Night” of the soul. In that terrible darkness alone, there is no one, no way, no thing, no hope.

      Then the demons attack. Those nagging self doubts, unresolved traumas, regrets, all gnaw at your soul. The realm of Kabbalah called Daath. A descendent, i think, of the Egyptian Duat, inadequately translated as afterlife. Eerily close to the the English word “death.” Saturn’s territory.

      But in becomes through. Stay with that darkness, persevere. That is the abyss separating the soul in eclipse from the Divine Transcendent it seeks. Crossing this division is to reach depth. And to be reborn.

      No longer separation but source, the potential energy of infinite connection. To Binah, Understanding, the Great Waters, the Black Mother, the feminine face of God.

  22. I am looking to the last pass of saturn over my natal 8 th house saturn on august 11 with a bit of trepidation. Mars will be conjunct my natal neptune at 22 08 libra
    that same day, and this couple aspects my mars-pluto conjunction at 23 leo in the 7th and jupiter at 23 gemini. in the 5th .Could anyone tell me what to expect??

  23. Born 11/9/1952, Columbia, MO at 10:52 am, married in 1975, 2 children (son and daughter ) divorced 1988. Kids are grown, have little to no relationship with my son and am confounded by his perception of me. Between the Clinton and Bush administrations, I have been out of work 4 times since 2001, no longer have any retirement funds or savings, though I am working again and putting as much away as I can. Compared to a lot of people my age, I am doing reasonably well, but have already decided that given circumstances, I won’t be able to retire ever, and when I do have to and then run out of the limited fund I will have, I am going to check out rather than a) live out of my car or burden my daughter. So seriously, how much worse can it get.

    • That’s a rough set of circumstances, sorry to hear of it, and I’m sure you’re second Saturn return really brought all those issues to the fore. Do visit the http://2ndSaturnReturn.wordpress.com, created especially with your generation in mind. Donna Cunningham

  24. Second Saturn return almost over, dob July 1953. Lots of interpersonal relationship problems with family. Saturn, Neptune in 1st, with moon. Pluto Moon natal, but moon presently progressed in Libra. Could not figure out all the “happenings” and found this site. THANKS! Great site. Will research lots more.

  25. So…, the “boomers” of late 1951- ’52 absorbed the sextile of Pluto from 21/22 Leo to their Neptune in Libra. This sextile has always seemed pertinent to me–especially when it coincided with the transits of Mars and Saturn thru Libra, Jupiter in Aries and Chiron in Capricorn–though I think it has more of a generational influence, don’t you? The strident optimism, the kamikazi idealism, the rainbow bridge?
    Anyway, I’m so glad to see you back up and back at ‘em!
    Best, Berta

  26. I actually have a Stellium here, with the Asc., Venus, Saturn and Neptune in conjunction. What I noted of interest was taking up Digital Photography and learning to use the software. Then publishing my works on Flickr. I own 2 cameras and use both in a photo shoot, mostly of Macro work of food. I also have a Stellium in Virgo. So Food, food preparation and owning a catering business all sort of ties in together. That is one area of talents.

    During my 1st Saturn return I was an avid photographer and chemist at the microscopic level, working in a laboratory. Details, details in abundance.

    The Other area of Talents, lies with Astrology, having the Virgo Stelllium in the 11th House. Now I am finding younger people, especially in their early 20’s and with their Stellium in Capricorn for some reason (s) making contacts with me. Karma at play or also because I have Jupiter in Taurus, so the triplicity in Earth Signs for me completes a harmony? Maybe also the Saturn return has taught me how better to deal with Capricorn Energies.

    Not thinking of retirement, because I own my own business and like what I do.

    • Hi, Aaron, with all that Virgo energy, you love your work and would be bored silly if you retired. I’m 71, with a Gemini stellium, and have just finished what I think might be my most important book–The Stellium Handbook: an Owner’s Manual for People with Stelliums or Triple Conjunctions.. I’ve devoted an entire chapter to the Capricorn stellium generation and their special challenges and needs. We older people with stelliums can serve as mentors to them, and it sounds like that’s exactly what you are doing. Read more about it here: Finally, The Stellium Handbook is Here! /


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