Posted by: Donna Cunningham | September 9, 2009

Career Challenges for the Pluto-Uranus in Virgo Generation

©2008 by Donna Cunningham, MSW 

The group that dominates the work force now is the 40 somethings–the 1960s astrological generation with both Pluto and Uranus in Virgo.  The past several years, they’ve been going through their mid-life crisis–and I mean going through it!!  Let’s see what’s special about their mid-life era.  

manworkstressabs-a2d A story in USA Today on 1/9/08 detailed a recent study by two economists who analyzed data from over two million people in 80 countries on depression, anxiety, mental well-being, happiness and life satisfaction. People in their 40s were more likely to be depressed and weren’t as happy as other ages. For both sexes, the probability of depression was greatest around age 44. 

Midlife was such a low point for wellbeing that it fell at the bottom of a U-shaped curve that indicated greater happiness among the young and old. The study’s co-author, Andrew Oswald, concluded: 

  “It’s something deep, beyond all the controls in our equation. It’s a developing midlife low. It doesn’t just happen one year and go away another. My best conjecture is that people eventually learn to quell infeasible aspirations. They manage to get their expectations into line with what they can actually achieve.” 

  Their findings match astrological teachings about the midlife series of transits in which Uranus opposes natal Uranus, Pluto squares natal Pluto, Neptune squares natal Neptune, and Saturn opposes natal Saturn. In the years I’ve been practicing, I’ve witnessed midlife years of astrology clients born in the 1930s to 1960s, but by far the most difficult transition has been for the group born in the 1960s with Uranus and Pluto conjunct in Virgo as part of a complex pattern of aspects. The transiting Uranus-Saturn opposition from Virgo to Pices added new elements and stresses to the midlife mix that all generations have facDonna Cunningham's Email Astrology Courseed, making it a far more challenging passage. 

  You’d Be Depressed, Too!  What’s Troubling Them? 

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, people born during the tumultuous 1960s make up the largest percentage of the labor force (about 28%) and include an estimated 41 million workers between 40 and 49. 

The issue of Right Livelihood is an important dimension in the collective psychology of those with the Virgo conjunction prominent—that is, when it’s joined by additional Virgo planets, appears on the angles, or makes many aspects—and especially when it falls in the vocational houses. Their sense of purpose and self-worth, their hopes and expectations are shaped by it. When they aren’t fulfilled in work, their joy of living is greatly diminished. 

In its positive expressions, people with this remarkably gifted combination are well-suited to contribute solutions to today’s daunting social, medical, and economic problems. To understand why work is so important to them, let’s consider some qualities you might see if Pluto and Uranus were placed in the vocational houses and well-aspected.  

  • Pluto:                                    Uranus:                                  Virgo:
  • Insightful                              Socially-Conscious           Eager To Serve
  • Analytical                            Visionary                               Practical
  • Focused                                Innovative                            Attentive To Detail
  • Deep, Probing                    Detached                               Sensible, Level Headed
  • Passionate Concern         Idealistic                               Meticulous
  • Persistent                             Independent                       Hard-Working
  • Healer                                    Humanitarian                     Skilled And Capable
  • Transformation                 Revolution                           Steady Improvement

 If your line of work is devoted to improving our world and making life better for those who are struggling, wouldn’t you want these sterling individuals working for you? Vast changes in the workplace in recent decades make career satisfaction a major challenge for this subgeneration. Especially during and immediately after the midlife cycle, many contend with disillusionment and despair. 

Virgo, on the whole, is a sign with integrity and a strong distaste for dirty tactics. Unfortunately, the corporate world is increasingly corrupt, and the bottom line, rather than service to consumers, determines most workplace policies and practices. Virgo has high standards, yet living up to them has become nearly impossible. Shoddy workmanship offends them, and with today’s heavy workloads, quality is sacrificed for profit. Many of this generation are stuck in jobs where they feel like cogs in a machine that has long since lost its humanity and honor. These trends became more and more prevalent during their thirties and forties, prime time in anyone’s career. 

Slash/Careers–A Subgeneration’s Solution?manworkmazered-a2d 

 What career path might work for members of this subgeneration who find the mainstream workplace distasteful and dehumanizing? There are people with the Pluto-Uranus conjunction who love their jobs and who awake each day eager to get to their desks, but many of these fortunate individuals are self-employed, not part of a corporate machine. 

Whether natally or by transit, iIndependent Uranus in the career houses–the 2nd, 6th, or 10th– often indicates self-employment in your own business or as a consultant of some kind, a growing segment of the labor force. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, workers age 45 and older represented 38% of the workforce in total in 2002, but they made up 54% of the self-employed (in unincorporated businesses only).  

People with strong Uranus aspects have the capacity to periodically reinvent themselves in ways that appeal to the collective. To survive in today’s fast-paced, ever-changing economy, the capacity to stay on top of new trends and develop leading-edge products and services is a distinct asset.  Another increasingly popular tactic to survive market fluctuations—and career stagnation—is to diversify by pursuing several vocational tracks at once. Since Virgo is both a mutable and an earth sign, Virgo placements often grant a plethora of practical skills and the capacity to transfer such assets from one type of enterprise to another. Always seeking to improve their performance, the best Virgoans constantly refine their skills and so have more and more to offer as they mature. 

Perhaps self-employment plus diversification is a solution for many in the 1960s group. An online columnist for the New York Times, Marci Alboher coined the term “slash careers” to describe this growing phenomenon. Herself an author/journalist/speaker/life coach author/journalist/speaker/life coach, she has developed strategies for making diverse career passions work together.  Her helpful book, One Person/Multiple Careers: a New Model for Work/Life Success, explains how to make the Slash Effect work.  For this subgeneration, Pluto’s capacity to rise from its own ashes and Uranus’s inventiveness can make the Slash Career approach a successful tactic for economic survival over the long haul. 

 Note: this is an excerpt from a longer article published in Memberletter, the journal of the National Council for GeoCosmic Research,  in June-July, 2008. Download the full text article—including  sources for the articles cited—here:  The Vocational Angst of the 1960s Generation 

NOTE: Scroll  down and read the comments on this one, folks!  We’ve had a lively and productive discussion in response to this post.   

More Posts about Vocational Astrology on this Blog:   

More Posts about Uranus on this Blog:  

More Posts about Pluto on this Blog:  

·         Pluto-Saturn Preparedness Kit #1—Houses & Areas of Life Affected  

·        6 Things You May Not Know about Pluto 

·        Pluto in the Career Houses–The Power to Manifest or Fail for Spite  

·         Pluto in Capricorn: A Laugh and a Half, by John Marchesella 

·        How the Pluto-Saturn Square may Affect People born with that Aspect 

·         The Steamy Side of Venus-Pluto Aspects—A Photo Gallery  

·         High Maintenance–a Venus-Pluto Vignette  

·        Mars-Pluto Aspects? Use your Manifestation Mojo!  

·        Healing Tools For Plutonians: Transforming The Self And Others 

·        Purge Yourself of Pluto’s Negativity—Get Free of Bitterness 

·        Pluto and the transiting Antiscia–not Over ’til It’s Over   


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Art Credits: Like most posts on this site, the art here came from    



  1. I’ve got Uranus and Pluto in Virgo but I don’t feel any sense of depression. I also don’t see myself as in “midlife,” whatever that is. Never worked for the corporate world, knew they’d get as sick of me after five minutes as I’d get of them. Love being an independent contractor. Like Michael Jackson once said, “I’m four.”

    I feel like my whole life is ahead of me, everything is possible. No aspiration is unfeasible. Mostly I love to play video games, read, listen to and make music. Yes, I’m a performing artist. And I think you guys are generalizing WAY too much.

    • Go Raven! You speak for more people than you know. These “midlife” stereotypes are downright insulting.

  2. 11/1/64 3:40pm so now what?! any advice?!

  3. Hi Donna, this is excellent info on my daughter who was born at the very end of the 60s. Maya has had nothing but career issues since graduating college in the mid-90s and after losing her editing job in March due to cutbacks, now spins and hand dyes yarn for her etsy shop – it’s her dream job, she says. Will send your article link along to her, and thanks.

    (One blog note that i may be the only to experience: clicking your other links i get a page that says i don’t have permission to edit! i just want to read your articles, not edit them!)


    • Thanks, Jude–I’ve done consultations for so many of them while I was still active, and Right Livelihood is a life-long question for so many of them. Donna

      PS. Several of you let me know there was a glitch on the list of previous posts. I’m working on it today. If you couldn’t get through to articles on the list, try again.

  4. I passed this post on to a Uranus-in-Virgo friend of mine, and she was so impressed! It’s a really good analysis, especially since it’s so understanding and upbeat.

  5. Thank you Donna..for a fabulously composed insight! I have Pluto conj. Ur:Virgo/4th conjuncting Sun and SN and all part of nat. angular Grand Cross.

    Your article today was just what I needed to tap my inner reserves again..they have been dwindling of recent..time to move forward again.

    • Glad this piece was of use. I have a special place in my heart for your generation, which was born just when I got started in astrology. Since the planetary pattern was so unusual, we all wondered what you’d be like when you grew up. Well, now we know! You’re a very special generation with so much to offer our world in these troubled times, especially in the workplace which has become such a source of suffering for so many. Donna

  6. Great piece – thanks so much! There is other research that is supportive of your perspective on this sub-generation. The NY Times article below is a link to it. I’m a member of the sub-generation you speak of and have lost quite a few friends to suicide and drug overdose. So important we look at these issues.
    Thanks Again!

  7. This is a brilliant post Donna. I think about this so much being a classic example, a Libra dragon with Cap rising, Mercury Virgo with Urans-Pluto conj in Virgo.

    Here I sit at work wondering whether I will have a job in a few days time. This generation I believe has been denied the opportunity to lead and forge a new way. The corporate world is still under old-paradigm thinking of the tyranny of self-serving egoistic mediocrity from the Pluto in Leo generations. Good on words and spin, but crap on doing anything materially constructive.

    When the sh… hits the fan once and for all the old paradgim will be rendered reduntant. Pluto in Capricorn is about sustainability, not talking about it, no Kyoto conferences, it will just happen.

    It will be these folk of the Uranus – Pluto virgo sub-gen that will be prepared. We always doubted anyway. Had to go along for the lie. No one will have a clue in the world to come. This folk have incarnated to carry a beacon of integrity and right purpose in the world to come. To hold some sense of hope and order when the world turns to absolute chaos.

    • What an incredibly difficult time your generation has to live through and to lead the way for us all. I am so very grateful to be older now and not in the workplace. Donna

  8. Sorry about the tone of that last comment. maybe it’s the effect of Pluto squaring my Libran MC and approaching the square to my Sun, with Saturn conjuncting my Virgo Mercury. I am trying to secure a better job in the field of natural mangement resource policies and it’s just so many bureaucratic recruting hurdles.

    Also years of seeing the “writing on the wall” and just being so tired (in an old soul way) of seeing so much talk, talk, talk of sustainable resource and energy policies and so much spin with expedient extractive and exploitative management still ruling the day. The environment has no voice and animals, rivers and trees can’t talk unfortunately.

    Leaders are talking Carbon Storage and Sequestration to maintain coal-fired power plants that may, that is may work in 2035 or so. Meanwhile the nuclear energy pundits fly their flag. Meanwhile huge photo-voltaic solar energy plants that actually work and are available NOW can’t attract funding from the corporate world (surprise, surprise!) and mediocrity prevails. That fan is now on high-speed courtesy of the Uranus-Saturn opposition.

    This is such an electric time and this particular transit is the call to metaphorical arms for this sub-gen to revolt and just do it anyway, that is implement change and apply it. We are entering a parallel universe right here on Earth, with two worlds, and this sub-gen will utilize all this latent energy awakened by the Uranus opposition to Virgo and concretize it via the Saturnian realm.

    The indicators are now saying, there is a green light to consign the old ways to the trash bin. It is these folk that can harness it and nurture it and use this holistic knowledge of energy and resource systems even if the rest of the world still finds burying its head in the sand comforting.

    • I do believe that most people are like ostriches with their heads buried in the sand, preferring to deny the seriousness of the economic, social, and environmental problems we are facing. The Pluto-Uranus in Virgo generation is the one most likely to hold the technological capabilities and desire to serve that is needed to get through these next crucial years. But let’s chat privately about it. Donna

    • Hi Brad,
      I know this is an old post, but I am in exactly the same position – trying to foster sustainable development, and being frustrated by the politics and quagmire that surrounds such efforts. The only good thing is that I have been promoting renewable energy etc for ages and initially had to fight for my place at the table. Suddenly everyone is onto it and the money is flowing into the field. So the moral of the story is that uranus-pluto in Virgo in 6th house = people with work way ahead of its time, visionaries and pioneers. Try to keep that perspective and you won’t feel so discouraged.

  9. I think its important for those of us from this generation to remember that we’re not victims in all of this. Our work/career challenges are our opportunity to lead – to reinvent work.
    BTW I am self employed and working to diversify my work so that its not so oppressive. These challenges are sacred gifts that call us to deeper paths.

  10. Great point, Tim. I know many in your generation are at their wits end with worry, especially those with fewer inner and outer resources to call upon. Many who write to my advice column for Dell Horoscope are utterly desperate.

    On the one hand, getting real is the first step to coping with the situation. On the other hand, succumbing to despair and bleak negativity drains a person’s capacity to mobilize the necessary strength.

    So let’s not have any more end of the world type comments on this blog, please. As much as I value this highly productive discussion, I’ll have to edit them. What if that was all it took to send someone who’s already in the depths of despair over the edge?

    Words have tremendous power, and when words are backed up by the seeming authority of astrological conditions in the natal and transiting chart, they take on a terrible aura of “fate” and “destiny.” (Read my post Awful Things Astrologers Say to Clients to get a glimpse of what I mean.)

    When I started this blog, back at the end of December, one of my goals was to create resources to help those who are consumed with worry over the economy. Accordingly, I posted a series of pieces on healing tools and perspectives under the category “Freedom from Fear.” If you’re scared, use some of the tools under that category to get centered again.

    The one that helps me the most when I get anxious about money is doing a gratitude list–just sitting and looking around my apartment, saying thank you for all the nice things and for the people and spiritual perspectives that have enriched my life. I don’t know if this helps any of you, but I often remind myself that, no matter how little we have, we in this country live better than 85% of the people on this planet. The movie Slum Dog Millionaire really brought that home for me.

    Thanks to all of you for your comments and contributions. Donna

  11. Donna – great advice – great wisdom. On the up side I think the economic downturn has given birth to a new economy. So many of my unemployed or under employed friends have turned to the web for connection and community. The combination of Web 2.0 sites (like Facebook and blogs like yours) have given people an opportunity to network like never before. This powerful combination is giving birth to more small scale endeavors and cottage industries. This makes us both more self-reliant and more connected. Nice silver lining.

  12. Thanks Donna Great Info!!!!

    I Think all Our Generation is Going to take the lead with The Trine to Pluto and Opposition to Neptune later to make this World a Great New World so all of us can share and create a Better StarShip to Heaven !!!

    I Mean we are Just Starting Our Road !!!!!!!!!

    Best Wishes !!!!

    • I agree, Jorge. I have always believed that you’d come into your own at midlife, when the transits set offr your natal outer planets, as they they’re all in aspect to one another. Donna

  13. I’ve read your books for years – very few astrology books make that much sense. I’ve got Uranus/Sun/Pluto/Moon in a cluster, opposing Jupiter, with Jupiter as a focal in a kite formation. I’m a selfemployed writer/translator, and haven’t had a “proper ” job in yrs. The hardest thing for me has been worry – I’m an expert worrier – and only in the last two years have I realised it’s all about balance.
    I’ve been working with traditional publishing, but now it’s all changing, and I’m realising how fun that is! Finally I can be more in charge of my own publisity, do my own thing, so to speak. I’ve always looked forward to come into my forties – for some reason I was hoping for more peace and I was right. So for me the midlife crisis is a thing to celebrate.
    I just found your blog today, just at the perfect time!

    • That’s a huge stellium, since both the Sun and Moon are involved. I’m glad you found the article. It’s part of a much longer chapter about your generation in my ebook, The Outer Planets as Career Indicators (OPIL v.1). That book also has separate chapters on Uranus and on Pluto. PUblishing is going through such vast changes, over the years while it was in Sagittarius, that I don’t think we’ll recognize it at all in a few years. Donna

      • Thanks for the reply. I should be a Super-Virgo with that stellium, but I’ve never fit the profile of the neat and organized Virgo.
        I’ll explore your blog as I go along, starting with the e-book. I’m really hoping to find some understanding about self-spite. I’ve been a writer for 15 yrs, but never really managed to get a breakthrough, despite 10 published books, so I would like to explore if that’s what I’m doing. My stellium is in the 9th house, so I’m in the right business. Thank you again!

      • One of the things I’ve learned about Pluto over the years of observing myself and others is that where Pluto is in our charts we can fail for spite. Perhaps, though, part of your difficulty in breaking through to a new levelas an author is that Virgo quality of modesty and not wanting to push oneself forward, and that’s something an author has to do today. Self-publishing is even more dependent on the willingness and comfortability in self-promotion. I do relate!! Donna

  14. Hi Donna!
    I keep lurking around in here, finding gems all the time. Pluto in Cap is trining pluto-uranus in Virgo (right on my stellium).- I seem to remember from your Pluto book that even a transiting trine from Pluto can be difficult. Have you written about that anywhere in here? (Can’t find anything, but that doesn’t mean it’s not here!).
    Thanks for the advise btw. I do hold myself back, not wanting the spotlight. But am getting out on the net, perhaps that will help!

    • Transiting Pluto trines? Haven’t written about it, but man oh man, have I lived it! So many things to write about, so little time! Donna

  15. Hi Donna, I am relatively new to your site tho, so I have only just found this thread. I have Pluto/Uranus conjunct my Virgo MC & “I am” the issues discussed here! I describe myself as “career challenged”, as my “slash career would fill a page”. Thanks so much for this article, I see this as a lifelong process of navigating the complexity of a dysfunctional western culture & will learn from the challenges I still currently face with further gumption & creativity!

  16. Hi Donna! I have only just read this. I have Pluto/Uranus conjunct Virgo MC & I am a textbook case of the issues described here. Sigh! I have had wonderful peaks of creative recognition & my skills rate highly as a fine combination of creativity & practicality, though my slash/career would fill a page! The birth of my first child 3 years ago was a timely career respite that has fulfilled me entirely & I am a devoted mum, tho with Uranus moving into Aries soon, my next venture in a new direction-creative dance teacher training-will hopefully herald in a whole new era of human potential & growth. Bless!

  17. Dear Donna,
    BLESS you for nixing the “doom and gloom” talk-what a COMPASSION-killer that is.Thanks for mentioning our ultimate SECRET WEAPON:the gratitude list!(Fail-safe solution!)How wise you are…!!
    Take care,’kay?

    • thanks, Wendy, I think your generation is more than up to the challenge. Awesome skill set and capability. Donna

  18. Dear Donna, would a tight Pluto in Virgo opposition to Chiron/Jupiter/MC make progress difficult?

    • Complicated, for sure. Pluto on the IC (4th cusp) opposite those planets might show that you still have strong issues about authority figures, career, and money due to difficulties with your parents as role models. There are many articles about Pluto on this blog that might give you more insights. (And if you haven’t taken the test for your Pluto score, that might give you an idea how strong your Pluto is.) Donna

      • Thank you, I did the Planet tests, high Pluto, Neptune, Chiron, Jupiter would be too. I read the relevant articles as well. Thank you very much, it’s good to know the roots of the problems. If I can find ways to work positively with the aspects and change things. It might change things for my offspring as well, and be able to break patterns . XX Jen.

  19. Hi Donna,

    Just saw this for the first time tonight because someone posted it on Facebook. Thanks! Great article!


    • Tony from the young astrologers’ group here in Portland? Great to see you! Folks, Tony has a great site to help people find a good astrologer at It also includes excellent videos. Donna

      PS. I’ve just added a link to Findanastrologer on the blogroll under “Helpful Sites.”

  20. I just found your article. Hope that it’s not too late to say that this article hit me like a nail! It’s exactly what happened to me during those period and I didn’t have a clue it;s about Uranus/Pluto/Neptune transit(and never leave out Saturn transit in Virgo).

    I am a virgo Sun with a heavy Virgo stellium : Venus in 11th and Sun Mercury Uranus and Pluto in 12th!!!!! Plus very tight orb: Exact!

    But with great pressure comes great accomplishment too. It’s up to the soul how to make the best out of the dark.

  21. Hi Donna, as a person who read all your books from way back when, I thank you for your insights. And as we are the Pluto in Leo generation too, and most of us parents of these 40 somethings, we have been there in the 60s in our youth and now we are here as grandparents!

    I am sorry that some posters see our Pluto in Leo generation as evil but that is another story completely. My daughter was born the day Sharon Tate and her friends were slaughtered by Charles Manson. . She was born actually on Aug 10 1969 at sunrise in Hollywood …just as the last couple were killed not far from the hospital.
    My son in law is two years older, born in Virgo in 1967 in SF at the height of the Summer of Love, With the Sun, mercury, Venus, Ceres, Pluto and Uranus in 7th. All conjunct …. In 2009 in August he was diagnosed with melanoma. In Sept 09 he had his lymph nodes removed….I believe he will be fine long term also. But talk about mid life crisis (his 1st surgery took place on what was supposed to be my daughter’s 40th birthday party).
    And my daughter, who has the out of sign conj of Pluto in Virgo 8 degrees from Uranus/Jupiter in the 2nd has gone through the work issues you have written about. She has MC at 8 Taurus with the transit from Saturn at that point being in opposition. Since last nov she has wanted a new job. Over the last 7 months she has interviewed and liked and in even one case been offered a contract only to lose out for varying reasons! The whole time Saturn was retrograding! (Her ego was in the toilet) The day that Saturn went direct (July 8, 2013) I insisted the energy was going to change….and sure enough, she was hired by a company she really liked! The same day…. But with Mercury still retrograde minor delays are still taking place!

    So who thinks that astrology doesn’t work? Not my family.

  22. I don’t know why I didn’t see this post back in 2008; I read your site regularly then. (It’s great to have you back Donna.) Anyway, I’m very grateful for your warm appreciation for my generation ; I don’t think I’ve read anything generously positive about us like you’ve written that i can recall, anywhere else. I can’t tell you how much I needed to read that right now, thank you.

    There is an author (can’t recall who) who wrote a book about the general characteristics of each year’s generation from the outer planet positions, and that author more or less said my year wouldn’t amount to much! Ouch.

    What you outline was exactly what I went through in 2008 and either side of it; but that was a really tough year, looking back. I mean, at the time I just did it. To some extent these pressures are still there actually. I get to be those attributes in my workplace but ultimately I still feel dehumanised by it. I am trying to come to terms with being nothing near the kind of person I’d imagined I’d be; which yes, does amount to a sense of meaningless. Have made a lot more peace with it over these years and that crucible has brought its own rewards.

  23. I am from this sub generation to…August 67. Got a degree and another post grad diploma on top, never fitted into the corrupt corporate system. Ended up in low paid jobs and persued a personal spiritual quest. I discovered my true nature, but a fellow exact birth date and year Uranus Pluto conjunct non duality teacher took his life… he was a great man. Hopefully things willing change folk will wake up to nefarious secret societies and chemtrailing else the SHTF will be big time. A Neptune in Scorpio in the 12 house with Vesta conjunct with Neptune to the ascendant has got me delving into darker areas of the machinations of the NWO …I phrase the Old World Disorder of rich old white men…..racist I know but a fact never the less. Hopefully my generation will help a lot to raise consciousness just by being ourselves. Namaste.

  24. Reblogged this on Jude’s Threshold and commented:
    Anyone around age 44 or with family members in that age range is familiar with career challenges of the 40-somethings. Here, Donna Cunningham addresses the difficult mid-life crises of this generation with her usual aplomb and insightfulness.

  25. I think much of the discontent from this sub-generation is the fact that the Pluto in Leo sub-generation were given high paying high status jobs in their 20’s and early 30’s and are still holding on to them, working 60 hours a week!

    The Pluto/Uranus conjunction opposite Saturn group are not given the opportunity to stretch their mental muscle-even though they are more innovative, knowledgeable and hardworking than the Pluto in Leo lot- nor other opportunities to ‘right the system’ thus much of their labour is done surreptitiously, without reward or recognition for the positive changes that they are implementing, as any overt attempts to display their knowledge and power is stomped out quickly by the Pluto in Leo boss, who wants to stay Boss until he/she dies!

    Also much of the Uranus/Pluto generation do not have regular work as the Pluto in Leo people have the highest paid, most secure and longest work hours, and Uranus/Pluto people are busy taking care of family, aging parents, neighbours and others, who naturally gravitate towards these individuals as they have an aura of strength and caring, and of course most of this work is unpaid, and in capitalist society, it is unrecognised! Younger generations have generally a lot more help and financial opportunities too!

    • I’m sorry to say that you are right in your observations. Though I, too, belong to the Leo generation, I came to the very same conclusion long ago. Donna

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