Posted by: Donna Cunningham | May 5, 2011

Born 1951-3? Join Skywriter’s Second Saturn Return Project

©Cinco de Mayo, 2011 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

Were you born sometime between September, 1951 and October, 1953, while Saturn in Libra was intermittently within an 8° range of a conjunction to Neptune? If so, your second Saturn return is coming between September of this year and September of 2012.

For your particular age group, that may well be a challenging period, but let’s talk about what you can do, starting NOW, to understand the issues at stake in this especially intense second Saturn return.

(Astrologers, you may also want to pass this information on to clients fitting into that group. Astrology lovers, pass it on to friends. People having their first Saturn return, see the note at the bottom of the post.)

I’ll have some personal messages and advice for you in a later post, but want to start by giving you a good foundation for the project. It’s important for you to understand the parts of your birth chart that will take center stage for an encore of past eras. There are links below to articles that can help you determine which important areas of life it’s advisable to start working on now.

Give yourself time to face and address the major issues and life patterns that Saturn-Neptune conjunction has meant over the years, so that this does not have to be a time when they come to a head in a negative way. Instead, you can use it productively to conquer some of your barriers and build a more solid foundation for your senior years.

You may find it helpful to keep a notebook or journal to record your thoughts and memories during this period.

Note: you can find an approximate date when your Saturn return is exact with the Saturn Return Calculator , but note that the effects can be felt at least 3° degrees before and after the exact point and that the Saturn return may happen as many as three times, due to it’s direct and retrograde motion.

Step One: Find Saturn and Neptune on your chart and identify the house of your birth chart where they are placed. This will help you identify the areas of life that will be affected by the return and the people in your environment who are most likely to be involved. Suggested reading:

Step Two: Determine whether they are  conjunct natally—that  is, within a 0-8° range of one another, both in the sign Libra. For instance, suppose Saturn is at 22° Libra 50’ and Neptune is at 27° Libra 20’. They are only 5° apart and thus are conjunct. Keep track of the degree numbers involved,  as that will help you track the times when transiting Saturn in Libra will be making the return.

Step Three: Read–or re-read– Getting a Grip on Saturn-Neptune Aspects, including the comments, to see if you relate to the Saturn-Neptune life patterns described there. (It would help others with the same aspect if you added a bit of your own story to that section too.)

Step Four:  Take the tests to measure the relative strengths of Saturn and Neptune in your chart—or get someone to help you with it—for that planet may dominate  in the combination and during this transit:

(Over your head already?  Skip to the bottom of the post for the “write to my advice column” option.)

Step Five:  Match up the degree numbers to find out when transiting Saturn in Libra will be conjunct natal Saturn and natal Neptune by visiting these pages: 2011 Ephemeris and ephemeris 2012.

Remember, Saturn has retrograde periods and is likely to cross over a particular degree three times before moving on.  (Write down the months it’s within a 3° range, as you’ll want to refer to it again as the year continues.)

Step Six:  Read any of these articles related to Saturn in Libra that seem to apply:

If  you were born between 1951-53, this article and more to come are a special Skywriter project. If you’d like to participate, sign up for a subscription at the top right hand corner of the blog.

READERS, Have you already identified  areas you’re going to need to work on?  Share with us in the comment section, and I’ll see what I can recommend.

For personal advice on your  second Saturn return, write to my advice column:  I am retired from doing personal consultations and do not comment on individual charts on this blog.  However, I have a monthly advice column in Dell Horoscope Magazine.

I would like to dedicate an upcomingDell Horoscope column  to this Saturn return project by choosing four representative letters from people born in this era. If you’d like to be one of the readers chosen, send an email with your complete birth data and some information about the situation you’re concerned with to

Note to younger readers: Are you having  your FIRST Saturn return? That would be age 28-29, born with Saturn in Libra during 1980-83. The articles on Saturn in Libra will apply to you, and  it’s good to know what house is affected. Otherwise, the rest of this project is not for you because you don’t have Neptune conjunct Saturn. Visit with the Saturn Sisters: Sherene Schostak and Stefanie Iris Weiss,  resident astrologers. Order a Saturn return report and have a look at their book, Surviving Saturn’s Return.


  1. sigh…
    That would be me, right now actually. Saturn and Neptune are in my 6th house and Saturn is the stronger planet and i guess by your means, they are conjunct.
    My problems are health problems, thanks to Neptune, half the time I can’t figure out what to do using traditional and non-traditional methods. My shoulder just “went out” (muscle spasms) and I have been sitting here wondering why… DUH.

    And at work. I am a team player, but my passion is not in the office, so I do more low level stuff and leave the more technical stuff to the experts. This past month, I have been hit with some odd tough jobs without sufficient training (and 5 transiting planets in the 12th house) so needless to say, i made a lot of mistakes and because of it, we are re-vamping how we train people for jobs.

    so you DO have my attention.

    • It’s not that I’m glad you have the conjunction, Mimi, but I AM glad to have a familiar face/gravitar to work with on this project. Not surprising to have work/health issues show up with it in the 6th.

      Hmm. Something to ponder to see if it applies: Here’s what I believe/have observed about the 3 health houses (6, 12, 1) where health issues arise under transits: The body does for us what we cannot do for ourselves. Most commonly, what it’s doing for us is to SAY NO. Does that ring any bells, and if you feel okay to do so, can you share what it is you might be needing to say no to. Donna

      • well, I want to quit my job. is that saying no?
        i also have mars and venus in that 6th house.

        I will have to think about it, but I don’t know what I would be saying no about.
        i just started (in January) an adult ballet class. My doctor says that’s why my shoulder hurts. But we don’t really do that much with shoulders except hold hands over heads. if i can’t do that, i’m pathetic.

        I’ll think about it.

      • ok, i gave it a night. When i had my first saturn return, i was already having problems with my neck. I went to see Johnny Lister who said i would have a chronic problem, but he didn’t say what it was. after 32 years, I can tell you what it is, it’s a sedentary lifestyle. so if Saturn is telling me ANYTHING, it’s telling me STOP SITTING.
        Nothing fancy, nothing profound. And here I am afraid to retire because the whole country is a mess.

  2. so anyway, back to that saturn/neptune thing, can i say, “all of the above?”
    rules – what are they any way???
    accountability – honest to a fault about the screw ups
    perfectionism – trying to get this job right without the right tools
    impossible standards – accepting my limitations
    striving for self mastery. – trying to fix my old body
    that’s the saturn part

    dream world (i’ve been remembering dreams a lot more)
    denial? (I don’t think so)
    those jobs were chaotic, no kidding!
    boundaries !!! when should i NOT volunteer for this stuff??
    compassion – yes
    feeling helpless EVERY SINGLE DAY
    spiritual seeking – signed up for a Reiki class
    (I can’t find confusion, how come it’s not on the list?)


    this is a great article, Donna!!

  4. Wow! I’ve been waiting for this one.
    Late December, 1951, reporting here–when Saturn at 14d, Mars at 18d, and Neptune at 21d were conjunct in my 9th–the top of a Cardinal Cross.
    I don’t want to jump in unprepared so…after some prep work I will be signing on for the project.
    NOTE: as I’ve mentioned before, Saturn went long retrograde during that time frame so many of us still have it there by progression 59+ years later.
    We were also born with Uranus in Cancer, Chiron in Capricorn, and Jupiter mostly in Aries–so throw in transiting Pluto and Uranus, a couple of onions, some spinach and we have a soupy mix indeed!
    I do think that those of us with Cardinal angles will be better prepared for the entree… Thank you, Donna!

    • That’s a big Saturn-Neptune stew indeed. Much, much more to ponder–I think you’re a contender for a wee prize I have in mind…don’t disappear in the fog! Donna

      • a wee Scottish prize?– Okay, I’ll bite. But as a 12th Sun Capricorn/ Cap Asc.,– you know I’ll have to decline…”someone might see me up there…”–(David Byrne).
        Even though… “I could’a been a contender…” (Marlon Brando– On the Waterfront)….I gotta scoot…back later, lol, Best, B.

  5. I just want to wake up when it’s over and skip over the gory details in real time.

    • trouble is, if you are not careful, you’ll wake up with your neck locked up in muscle spasms…

  6. Just did the scoring thing and my Saturn is 34 and Neptune is 27. They are conjunct in my 1st house squaring Venus/Uranus in the 10th, trining Jupiter and the moon. As an artist I love the ability to manifest what pops into my imagination and have always had that ability. Now I’m just really tired physically and have had a few accidents in the past month. Thanks for posting this information

  7. Hmmmm… score, 41 for Saturn and 39 for Neptune. They also conjunct in my first house, just as Maria R., squaring Venus /Uranus and trining Jupiter… I am ready for a physical transformation, not sure where to go. OR what to write, just interested.

    • Hi, Eva, it’s enough to just start thinking about what these chart features show about you and your relationships. Donna

      • I have been thinking about this since last night… as to my relationships of NOW, I have learned in the past 21 years to be more with me, as to watching my borders, and where to say no instead of yes… The last Saturn return my mother died. Her sister took over her place a a mother for me and is now 90 yrs old.
        As to my comment on a phyisical transformation, I didn’t mean anything more than a big change in my health issues, which I do want to change. Actually I am in the process of changing my eating habits. No diets, just habits.
        So I am following this blog closely, I know there are a lot of us with similar issues, different colors, but a basic “same”.

  8. Thank you for this! I am going to sign up. My Saturn-Neptune conjunction is pretty tight – within a degree and a half, and both are strong in my chart, almost equally so: Saturn 27 and Neptune 29 if I don’t include Chiron aspects, Saturn 35 and Neptune 34 if I do. Although my 2nd Saturn return doesn’t really come into play until later this year – the conjunction to Neptune is exact Oct. 31 and the exact Saturn return transits are Nov. 10 this year and May 19 and July 28 in 2012. However, Saturn is hovering over my Ascendant now, so I think I am getting something of a preview. I have been doing a lot of work on exactly these issues lately: setting healthy boundaries, not taking on responsibility for other people, learning not to be either a victim or a rescuer, and learning to avoid the “people-pleaser” trap. This is hard work, but extremely rewarding, so I’m actually kind of glad to see these transits coming up and to know they will finish in 2012. It would be very cool to be completely healthy in all these areas!

    • Welcome, Margaret. But please know I’m not promising complete health, just insights and some healing tools. Donna

      • Oh no, I know the work is up to me. And not too many of us ever get completely healthy. But big transits like these often do make a huge difference in my life if I make a point of using them effectively.

      • Precisely. That’s my motivation for doing a series like this. If I were still doing individual sessions, that’s how they would work. Donna

  9. Hi Donna,

    Although I keep reading, self-educating, constantly trying to use my own chart to understand all the nuances of astrology, I am still a very beginning beginner. I have to say those of you who have mastered all this material to one degree or another have my admiration. I think these observations actually bring me directly to my own Saturn return focus since I fall in the range, Oct 1953. Sun, venus, Saturn and Neptune all congregate in a tight group in Libra in the 10th. I’ll have to re-read the degree stuff to figure out that aspect.

    What I’ve already been feeling for quite awhile is how I ‘missed’ my calling, so maybe didn’t really successfully get thru my first Saturn return (???). I can’t call what I’ve done for a living a career. Since I had so much dissatisfaction going on in my work and life, circumstance assisted me by very harshly bouncing me out of my job and life as I knew it 5 years ago, I think with the very specific message to ‘fix’ things.

    I’ve been working since then to recover, and now at 57, without education, experience and maybe even stamina to support a new type of work or finally something I can call a career, never mind the economy and available jobs, I’ve finally ‘decided’ what I’d like to be working at. It seems I’m fighting all the cards stacked against me butting up against my idealistic notions I can help, can make a difference, can do what I want to do without all the normal and necessary tools and support. I waiver daily, at times feeling I can accomplish what can seem like pipe dream goals, and realism, the likelihood of anyone hiring me for anything, lucky if I could be hired at Target. If I were independently wealthy I’m sure volunteering would suffice to fill all this stuff missing in my life but that’s not even vaguely close to actual circumstance. I both need and want to work, never really saw myself as a retiree.

    So I think I probably belong right here trying to let astrology be a tool to help guide me thru this time, since it seems to make so much sense to me.

    • you are the same age as my sister (born in Sept 53) and for years she was shopping for a career and i contended that you don’t necessarily need a career, sometimes what you just need is a job that keeps you able to eat.
      I have a “career” but it does not define me in the least, it is a job and nothing more than that.

      • Mimi

        I have had nothing but jobs that kept me able to eat. I never “wanted” any of my jobs, they were praticalities, but I did invest in them (in others words, still gave my all). The way I see things is I have been denying my feelings about what I needed/wanted to be doing for as long as I’m going to deny them. I think that’s why the big break in my life happened, kind of a line in the sand. If I have to go back to work doing the kind of things I had been we might just as well forget about this conversation, because doing so will undoubtedly take me down. So no I’m not looking for a title, I’ve had those, instead, meaning, meaningful.

  10. I have a very close Saturn-Neptune conjunction in the 7th during the time period Donna describes. I’ve thought about going back to school, since I’ll have to continue working for a while. Although my children are slowly leaving the nest (no problem with that, I’m looking forward to this!) my son is about to become a father soon in a less than ideal situation. He recently broke up with the mother to be, and I’m concerned about him and his ex taking responsibility for the impending little stranger. I DO NOT want to become one of the grandparents who end up raising the grandkids. I have definite ideas on how I want to spend the rest of my life; and raising a grandchild is not in the plan. I hope this is not what Saturn has in mind for me.

  11. Donna,

    WOW! You pulled our collective yearnings for your counsel on this topic right out of the ethers! I am SO IN!

    Saturn conjuncted my Saturn @ 10 Libra for the first time in Sep 2010 and shortly thereafter I collected my last unemployment check (99 weeks worth) and after hundreds of applications and ZIP/ZERO/NADA I decided to hire myself and strike out on my own. (really…not much choice in the matter). Although I have a 3rd house Saturn and there are mundane manifestations so far related to 3rd house things (siblings, neighbors, communication etc.)..i really feel a GLOBAL impact, like every zone of the chart is being contacted.

    I never really thought about the significance of Neptune being in close proximity to Saturn, but after reading this post and some of the referenced articles, at least in my chart it seems as if the transits to Neptune, shortly after a similar contact to Saturn, sort of “seals the deal” in terms of the energies being presented.

    I have a 20% off coupon for Barnes and Noble and will be heading out to buy a journal to record Second Saturn Return Project musings.


    • Welcome, D. Glad to have you aboard! I do have a lot to say to this group–and, more importantly, I know you will have much that is helpful to share with one another. Donna

  12. I often think about the people I went to high school with, all of whom were born in the Saturn Neptune conjunction period between ’51 and ’53. We were the last kids to wear saturnine school uniforms and the first to try drugs.
    Where I grew up, many of the fathers had been in World War II, gunners and pilots and soldiers who’d learned to drink in the forces. More than a few of us lived with alcoholic fathers and mothers who felt financially dependent on their men. I tend to think of our Saturn Neptune group as the ones who reacted to the authoritarian parenting style of a war-traumatized generation, with an escape into what we called “higher consciousness” through drugs.We weren’t in the vanguard of social activism (that went to our older siblings) but we were in the vanguard of mind-altering substances.
    Curiously though, I didn’t do drugs while all around me were smoking up between classes. My Saturn (32) is almost as strong as my Neptune (37) conjunct in the 12th house, forming a T-square to a 3rd house Moon in Capricorn opposition with my 9th house Uranus in Cancer. I escaped the heavy negativity of my family life by going to church, writing and doing artwork. I had a lot of earnest talks with God which led me out of church into a life of spiritual seeking and a career in helping others communicate their products and services (otherwise known as advertising & marketing).
    I can feel the stirrings of a second Saturn return now. My first Saturn return coincided with suggestions from doctors that if I wanted to conceive, now would be a good time to start. Yikes, I thought. Unknown scary territory, motherhood (remember, Capricorn moon). I took the risk, had a daughter and started a new business. This time around, I’d like to create something new, using my experience and abilities. Just not sure what yet (writing mysteries, romances?) but I’m exploring and open. I think my feeling of “unknown” speaks to the 12th house. It’s kind of terrifying at its worst as I worry that I will take on what was the depressed approach of my mother. Moving forward and taking creative risks is the only way this Libran knows to overcome it.
    Thanks for creating this particular project Donna! I will be following it closely!

    • Barbara, thanks for the reminder that there are many of us with this Saturn/Neptune placement. Thanks to facebook, i am in touch with many of my high school classmates. And this past month one of them died and i have watched how his death has resonated with the rest of the class. I imagine before modern medicine, the second Saturn return was when many people left this life..
      And many of us with this Exalted in Saturn Libra have abused drugs and drink
      etc… I wonder if they are the ones with the stronger Neptune?

      • Interesting thought, Mimi! I wonder how the stronger Neptune played out versus the stronger Saturn. That would be something to look at. My guess is that the stronger Neptune might manifest as either substance-altering habits or a more spiritually oriented lifestyle, or in other ways…joining a cult perhaps? We were that generation…the Moonies and the Hare Krishna. I have a great interest in anything to do with divination for instance: tarot, tealeaves, numerology, psychic work and so on. I think that’s my Neptune in the 12th talking. Wonder how the stronger Saturn might play out?

  13. Hi Donna, I’m in this group too, born November 1951. My Saturn & Neptune are not quite conjunct (9 degrees apart). I’ve already had the first pass of my Saturn return, and next week I’m coming up to the second pass.

    Libra is my rising sign, and my Saturn return takes place in the 1st house. Saturn conjuncts my 1st house Venus in Libra, squares my 10th-house moon & Uranus in Cancer and opposes my 7th house Jupiter in Aries.

    This Saturn return has really pushed me to face my fears & to break up some old rigid habits. I’m phobic about going to the doctor & I’ve managed to get some old slightly scary problems checked out. I’ve also been someone who’s avoided classrooms & formal education & during the last few months, I’ve taken a 2-month intensive course that turned out really well. Even though I was several decades older than the next oldest student, I held my own & learned a lot. It was great for my confidence level.

    One challenging thing was that I had a painful accident a couple of months after the first pass of the Saturn return. It happened when Saturn was squaring my natal moon. I fell on the stairs & whacked the hell out of my shoulder. The limitations that followed brought up a lot of body-image and aging issues for me. It’s been tricky finding the right balance (of course, balance) between allowing myself to heal and pushing myself to exercise (in order to feel strong & flexible again).

    Between the class and the accident, I’ve had to learn to simplify my life a lot. I can get quite frustrated about the limits of time, but this is something I’ve dealt with all my life. For me, the answer (once again) is balance. I need to enjoy every moment & whatever I’m doing at that moment, while stilll keeping my priorities & obligations in mind. (You can hear my Venus/Saturn conjunction in that.)

    Donna, you have the best forums – I always enjoy both your articles & the comments that follow.

    • interesting, we have different ascendants, different moons born the same month and both having shoulder issues!

    • Jenny,
      Your post made me connect the first Saturn contact (mine is at 10) and an accident that I also had shortly thereafter. I fell while gardening and ended up with 13 stitches over my eye…and…as you felt also…those same “body-image and aging issues.” Particularly since it was one of those ‘mature’ falls, one minute your standing, the next, flat on your face….for no real explicable reason. I am definitely getting a Saturn Return journal going today to put this all together. Thanks for sharing, I would not have made this connection had I not seen your post.

  14. As manager of (formerly, thanks for the shout-out, Donna. The Saturn Return report isn’t free, but we do have lots of resources on our site for those in their first Return.

    • boy, second Saturn return is so different from the first. My first Saturn return felt a lot like being marooned in Siberia. 🙂
      This one is a lot more… shall we say.. doable..? 🙂

      • One of the articles/discussions I have in mind is to compare the first and second Saturn returns for this group. I agree, the second Saturn return is generally more doable–provided we learned some important lessons during the first. Donna

    • Hi, Katie–nice to hear you’re involved with that. And I’ll correct the info in the post. Donna

  15. Donna, I’m deeply appreciative of these articles and the interactive blog. I’m in your group (born 10/13/52) with Saturn and Neptune both conjunct my sun in Libra, 5th house, squaring Uranus, trining Pluto. My scores were in the high 20’s for both planets.

    My life situation fits the pattern of parents not quite up to the job, and of being a surrogate parent to my 4 younger siblings. The lifelong instinct for hyper-responsibility has been a heavy one, and I was thrilled to read that this 2nd Saturn return is about finally learning to care for oneself. Not a moment too soon!

    Thank you for all that you offer. I believe this project is going to be a great benefit to many.

    • Thank you, Valerie. I know your group really well, because of so many clients and so many letters from Dell Horoscope readers over the years. A holiday like tomorrow–Mother’s Day–is likely to stir up some pain, but my wish is that you can spend it being really good parents to yourselves. Donna

    • Just chiming in to say we are close in birthdays. I am 9/27/52 with the Saturn Neptune in 12, square Uranus in 9 and square Moon in 3, a t-square. You carried a heavy load as surrogate parent to all those siblings. Your Sun was affected strongly. I can relate, with an alcoholic father and depressed mother. We did have to grow up faster than we wanted. This time, let’s give ourselves what we need! Take care!

  16. Two questions: My bdate is 3 weeks after the time frame you mentioned, but I do have Saturn/Neptune conjunct, in the 9th. Does this still “count”? Also, Saturn is 1Scorpio and Neptune is 24Libra — they’re not in the same signs — does that “count”, or no?

    Thanks so much. This has definitely awakened me to paying attention to what’s comin’ down the astrological pike, so to speak — my Venus is also in the 9th, 25Libra, and she’s aspected natally by 5 planets including Mars, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Yikes!

    • Absolutely, Melanie–all that matters is that the conjunction is present. even if it’s “out of sign”. The dates are only approximate. Your blog name––looks like you’re already at work on the project. I’ll have to drop by. Donna

      PS. I DID drop by and loved it! Folks, Melanie has a wonderful blog–can you reach it by clicking on the link by her name? I’ve written to ask her to be a guest blogger in the near future.

      PSS. Given that your Saturn is in very early Scorpio, something interesting will be happening at the same time as your Saturn Return. Transiting Neptune in very early Pisces will be trining natal Saturn, setting off the natal conjunction. Given the positive Neptune features on your blog (art, meditation, recovery) , I suspect many of the natal Saturn-Neptune issues will be the focus of intense teaching that reaches a large audience of others with similar backgrounds.

  17. OMG! What a fabulous response, Donna — I’m (almost) speechless! And super-inspired to really ‘grok’ this Saturn Return. I’ve got so much stuff in the 9th w/ so many aspects, it may take me a few days to plow through it all. But, believe me, I will. Guest blog? Anytime. What an honor. Melanie

    • Great, Melanie, I think the article I have in mind will really strike a chord with Skywriter’s readers. Given the fact that your conjunction is in the 9th, you were born to teach. Donna

      • Thanks, Donna. And yes, teaching is the early morning bird’s song for me.

  18. Gee, Donna, you’re throwing a great party! 🙂

  19. I am so captivated by this project! Thanks to so much heart-sharing from others, I’m comfortable really looking at my own stuff. I’m really struck by how much suffering many of us endured as children, including myself (sexual abuse, in my case). I’m wondering what possible connections there might with these early experiences and what’s happening on the planet now. Did we choose to come back during 51-53, under this challenging alignment, in order to be better prepared to help others now, as we collectively face such tremendous transformative times?

    I’m also fascinated to look back at my first Saturn Return, seeing for the first time how crazy making, absolutely fantastic, beyond my wildest dreams professionally and personally it all was. And also to realize that’s when I began drinking, eventually ending up an alcoholic (now in recovery for many years). Sexually acting out was in high gear, as well; many of my deep shadow relationship issues were at the forefront (no wonder I started drinking!). So much of myself — in all my glory and all of my madness — was activated during that first return. Amazing! It really helps me to hold, process and release the shame I can fall into when I look back at that time. Which, no doubt, along w/ the years of healing work I’ve since done, will stand me in good stead this time around.

  20. Okay, okay…I’ve worked up my planetary scores for the “project” and here we go:
    Neptune =45…Pluto=47…Chiron=34. So far, so good? lol, B.

    • So Saturn is much stronger than Neptune, good for grounding. But all in all, the outer planets are all pretty potent, surprise, surprise. Donna

      • Ooops…Mars is 34, Chiron is 48. I like your hint of sarcasm, though.
        In going thru my journals and ephemerides for bio/aspect stuff, it’s surprising, surprising, how much I missed seeing when it could have been of help at the time.
        Oh, well…Remember what Jerry Garcia said?–“if you can remember the ’60’s, you weren’t really there”… ! Best, B

      • Also- we guinea piglets are taking a sextile from transiting Chiron to natal Chiron…we could help, and be helped by, the project.

      • Good catch, Berta. It’s good to have that help…and that energy of the wounded healers helping each other with what they’ve learned. I do believe that the healing that comes out of this project will mostly be from sharing with one another. I can provide information, healing tools, but you are the ones who have lived with the aspect and learned how to navigate it.

        I am also struggling with the best venue for it–the sharing and info might be deeper in a private venue, but I’m not the setting up a forum type. A private blog with a password might be better, but again, I’d need some help with that. Donna

  21. Interesting, Berta, your comment re Chiron. One of the questions I’m exploring for myself is the connection between my Chiron return — and the issues presented then — and my Saturn Return issues. I intuitively feel their synergy; will post more when I’ve had time to delve into them.
    And yes, Donna, the Saturn Returns really get into my deep shadow material; the first one makes it really easy to see mine because I acted them out so clearly. Talking about them in public does ask me to ‘out’ myself. How much? Where? are questions.
    Finally, I’ve begun creating an entire sort-of survival manual for this upcoming Return. Based on my first Return, and looking at the ridiculous concentration of planetary bodies in my 12th house, using all of the tools you’re making available to us — I see it’s allowing me to have some fun, get creative, and do some mindful shamanic/mystical asking-for-guidance stuff. All of which is helping me stay out of fear and contraction, and instead, open up the whole thing energetically so I can receive the good stuff (thanks to Amanda Owen’s earlier guest post).

    • Melanie, Donna,–What makes it reeeealy interesting is that transiting Pluto is conjuncting the ’51-52 natal Chirons right now. It passed over mine (5d Cap conjunct my Sun in 12th) when
      Donna’s guest Chiron expert, Joyce Mason, was blogging here. Check out that session, Melanie, if you haven’t yet seen it.
      I gotta run–cooking is one of my passions and I have dinner in development. (i don’t know if you cook, Donna, and I doubt it…but you have managed to ruin a couple meals here in the last year! My husband now knocks at my study door, “Don’t forget you have something on the stove”…You’ve trained him! lol). Best, B

  22. Donna…”a private blog,…”….”but I’d need some help with that”…
    If I had any computer skills I’d volunteer, for sure,- but I can barely surf and do e-mail, as my family knows well– and how they chuckle about my lack of savvy. As a moderator, well, I’d be way too Capricorn tough love and my Sag Moon/Mercury would be quick to riff on that.
    So maybe others would/could help? I’m sure your regulars would respond to any plea you made. We need some Libra/Cancer people with air sign skills. Anyone out there?

    • i can help you set up a blog. easy!

      • That part turns out to be fairly easy, and no learning curve, but I may need someone to help keep other parts of it, like memberships and password. It’s a go, within a week, I’d guess. Donna

    • I’ve been looking into it this ayem, and I think a private wordpress blog isn’t hard to manage and there wouldn’t be any learning curve. Now I’m looking for a killer photo of Saturn that will keep it right in front of us at all times. Donna

      • I’m available 24/7–except Thursdays when I keep my grandaughter. If it’s a simple matter, such as record keeping, I know hubby would be glad to give me tips on this end–though his spare time is limited and he might have privacy concerns. As you can see, this e-mail address is his business one.

  23. Hi,

    Fascinating subject! My Saturn scores 46, and Neptune a measly 2! They are 11 degrees apart, so not conjunct. Saturn is in the 1st house tightly conjunct the Asc (Neptune also in the 1st) and at the head of a T square with Uranus and Chiron – each conjunct the MC and IC respectively.

    The first Return was a humdinger and awaited with much trepidation, but I have to say I haven’t felt much with this one at all! There was only one pass, last October.

    Joy to all,

  24. here’s a nice Saturn from the hubble telescope

    and one from ABCNews

    I don’t know what the rules are about using these images..

    • LOL! I seem to be just slightly ahead of you. This morning, I set up the blog and found a great image. Still quite a bit of work to do before it goes live, but it will be private, by password only, limited to the Neptune-Saturn conjunction folks. Donna

      • How do I get into the blog at wordpress?

  25. it’s not ready yet.

    • I’d love to participate in the blog when it’s ready. Will you let us know somehow?

      • We need to talk, folks!!! I want this to go forward, but my hands are really messed up, soI can’t lead it. What if we just went ahead, made it public, and opened it up? Donna

  26. Wow, am I glad Jenny sent an email about this site.
    My Neptune and Saturn are 19 seconds, yes seconds apart, rounded to 21 Libra in the 2nd house. And, yes, issues of finances and abundance or lack there of have dogged me for much of my life.

    At this point, I am pretty clear-eyed about finances. I know how to live frugally, yet joyfully, and I worry less than what I once did. The mortgage has gotten paid every month on time for >20 years and there is always food to eat. Hey, I actually like peanut butter and being a New Moon in Cancer kid, Moon 24 & Sun 18 Cancer, I’m a pretty decent, experimental and health-minded cook.

    Those of you mathematically-minded astrologers may have by now figured out that Saturn and Neptune both square my Moon and my Sun. Yep, my soul signed up for a challenging lifetime this go-round. Mars and Uranus are also at 18 Cancer to add to the fun. Saturn Score: 43, followed closely by Neptune at 40!

    I certainly want to make good use of this 2nd Saturn return, to let go of what no longer serves my soul purpose, and bring in what does. I’m doing what I can to release my household and brain clutter (for example, newspapers and mags that I will never read). Certainly have become more selective about what I bring in. I’m writing more, including some fledgling attempts at poetry.

    I look forward to learning with you all as we live out our 2nd Saturn returns in these interesting times….living in interesting times, a curse or a blessing, to be sure, depending on the moment and my mood.

  27. One of the most important things I learned at my first return was, to consider other peoples advice. To be open to the advice of older people, like my elders so to say.

  28. I am Libra and i have tried to see any difference because of Saturn and i saw that there is more difference on Scorpio than on me or people surrounding me. is it possible?

    • Hi, Alexander, there are 30 degrees in each sign, and so far Saturn has only gotten to about 18 degrees of Libra, so people born in the latter part of Libra haven’t felt its effects yet. As for people born with their Sun in Scorpio, it might be that they have other planets–like Mercury and Venus–in the sign Libra, and if so, they have felt some of the effects. Donna

      • You’re MIA, Donna, since Plutonian full moon. Hope you are well and working on the forum. Mimitab’s Hubble pic of Saturn has my vote.

      • I’m not MIA, just taking time for myself. And, yes, we’re making good progress on setting up the Neptune-Saturn group site. But already have a wunnerful picture of Saturn, the most gorgeous of planets.

        And, PS, working on the next Q&A session–guest blogger Brian Clark of Australia, on sibling relationships. Donna

      • I saw Brian Clark’s article in the June Dell Horoscope. He’ll make an interesting guest. YOUR June column was in fine form–which reminds me–I’ve been meaning to ask when you first started writing it? Been a regular reader since late 1960’s and, sorry to say, I was unable to keep every issue since but do have lots. Can you tell me who wrote in that space before you took over?
        Also allow me to stick this in here: you commented recently about assembling 12th house charts of famous people and I suggested Bob Dylan. On his birthday this week I saw that Astrodienst is using an evening chart, about 9 pm–giving him a packed 6th house–when the chart I’ve had in my files for years -( I think from Arroyo)-would pack the 12th.
        Oh, well….6th or 12th…”ya gotta serve somebody…”.
        Sorry for the bum steer. I’ll go with Astrodienst.
        Odd note: Dylan’s birthplace, Hibbing, Minnesota, is a very small town. My mother was born there.

      • I just looked, and the AstroDienst record says Bob Dylan, born 24 May 1941, 9:05 PM, in Duluth MN AA, B.C. in hand from Steinbrecher, obtained by Bob Garner. ( Steinbrecher died a very long time ago, as did Rodden, so the change to PM must have been made ages ago. I recall the 12th house chart, because my teacher, Richard Idemon put the chart up in class, not telling us who it was. As he chalked the planets up on the wheel, I was freaking out because it was the same as one of the men in my life except for the houses. The man was quite a rebel and rogue too, but made a career in social action–VISTA program, community organization, etc.

        Glad you enjoy my column. I just finished work on the October issue, a special theme of charts fitting into the second Saturn return group. I took over the column in 1994 when Neatha Aames retired after decades of work. It was quite a thrill for me, because my Mom was a great fan of Dell Horoscope. Donna

  29. Great! and thanks for describing my ruling planet as “gorgeous”.
    You must have seen me in person…

  30. This just in. NASA reports that a “giant storm” on Saturn “re-arranges the planet before our eyes” [Associated Press].
    Most interestingly, the article goes on to state that this disruption is a cycle recurring “about every 29-30 years”.

    • Whoa!! That’s fascinating. So, apparently this rearrangement happens each time Saturn is in Libra? And Saturn is supposed to be “exalted” in the sign Libra, so I’d say having your encrusted, calcified Saturn patterns disrupted in this way is a good thing. Thanks, Berta! Donna

      • wow, maybe that’s the physical explanation for the “exalted” Saturn thing!!!

      • I see the article originated on –written by Charles Choi. Also a great site for images and photos.

  31. I’m thinking that was my first exposure to Astrology, in the early 60’s Dell Astrology Magazine!

    • That was a great astrological era. I’m not sure how early I encountered Dell–there were so many astrology magazines on the stamds back then. But I recall my teacher, Richard Idemon bringing Dell to class and reading us letters from the column, then putting up the chart for us to analyze, and then reading what the columnist wrote in reply. I never dreamed I’d wind up being their columnist about 30 years later. Donna

  32. Yep, let’s go! Melanie

  33. I have my Saturn return in December 2011, and with natal Saturn at 27 Lib and natal Neptune at 23 Lib. I’m convinced that my career is either up like a rocket or down like the stick!

  34. I have just started my second saturn return in my 12th house and it is also conjuct my natal neptune at the same time. I have a chance to go back into a job I have done many times in the past that will give me great benefits and three weeks vacation but I will be bored to death and will probably have to work tons of overtime. I really want to go back to school to be a nutritionist so I can get some credentials behind me to become a natural healer, but I do not have the money available at this time. I won’t know about getting this job until the end of January 2012 but I am praying that Saturn gives me the opportunity to go back to school instead. I am just going to let it play out as I cannot get a scholarship and do not want to take out a loan to go back to school since I already have a degree. Also my progressed Chiron and North node are conjunct my natal Chiron (3rd house Cap) and North Node (cusp of 4th house Aqu). My progressed Pluto is conjunct my Midheaven, so I think going back to work may not be pleasant. I guess I will find out.

  35. Saturn conjunct Neptune (3 degrees) in the 11th, sextile Pluto (less the 1 Degree), trine Jupiter (1 degree), square Venus/Uranus (2 degrees).

    First time was a nightmare, flopped, spouse in bed with someone else, got cancer, 4 surgeries, 3 months of radiation, was told I had less than a year to live, but didn’t believe it.

    Felt I should devote my time to spirituality. Became proficient in Rosicrucianism, Theosophy, Anthrosophy, Fourth way, Buddhism, Mesoamericanism, Zero, Light, Time/Space, Taoism, etc., to the point that, my desire for admirable friendship seems improbable.

    Now,…T Saturn goes stationary on my N Saturn for May thru August 2012,… already lost a ton of money investing in Green Stocks; my third spouse does not want to be in a relationship; I moved to a new town where I know no one,…and the big hit has hardly began.

    Only if Colin Wilson’s book ‘Mind Parasites’ was real,…and we could send a team to blow up Saturn so to liberate Sentient Beings from its suffering.

    I feel a powerful sucker-punch is approaching,…and I’m somewhat already down and out.

  36. James, you are clearly a survivor to have gotten through all that during your first Saturn return! I am amazed…

    • That was only a summary,…on the day I was diagnosed with cancer (Feb 6, 1982), was the day my father was found murdered,…he was actually killed two days earlier, on the day of my biopsy.

      Oh well,..that seems to be life with Saturn. I’m sure other people have had their share of this malefic-like vibration. I live OK with Pluto,…my chart ruler,…transform or die,…Saturn just seems to be die.


  37. Born September 6, 1953, 10:42 am Tokyo, Japan. I can’t say it has been awful since October 2011 when second return started. I did lose a job I hated and had health issues because of it (tooth removed having caused headaches and upper neck and back pain). But now I feel as if I am in sanctuary and am able to hide. I have been considering options as what to do now with my second Saturn return. I am really trying to bring my health into balance (previous breast cancer, herniated discs in back) and I now have time to do this through holistic approach. I am beautifying my yard and this is providing physical exercse. I will see what the next two years bring as Saturn moves slowly. Perhaps I will have to divorce and move, it seems that events are slowly turning that way. I do not know but will let it happen if it’s supposed to. Meanwhile, I am able to meditate, and think about what I really want to do with the rest of my life, since I am not happy about what I have done so far. I hope Neptune does not do me in and cause me to lose ground toward doing what is important in the last third of my life.

  38. Thanks for finally writing about >Born 1951-3?
    Join Skywriters Second Saturn Return Project | Sky Writer <Loved it!

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