Posted by: Donna Cunningham | November 18, 2010

What Planet Rules Mentorship? Saturn or Chiron?

©11-18-2010 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

One question sent to my astrology advice column in Dell Horoscope was about a reader’s difficulties with her various mentors, all fitting a certain pattern. And so I was lead to consider what astrological features would show the mentorship process.

Joyce Mason of The Radical Virgo  feels it’s related to Chiron. He was teacher to a number of famous Greeks, but to me it’s a combination of Saturn and the 9th house. A mentor is a teacher, but a special kind of teacher, like Master’s level independent studies type of teacher.

 It’s also an 11th house connection, but again, with a bit of Saturn involved, making this an older,  more experienced friend—but NOT someone who’s going to act as a parent.  

A huge mistake is to expect the mentor to take on a Mommy or Daddy set of responsibilities in areas where you lack maturity.  It’s not fair to the mentor, it short-circuits your own development, and it winds up warping or even destroying the relationship.

(Warning: if you DO find a would-be mentor who’s willing to be Mommy or Daddy, then when you finally do grow up and need to cut them loose–or heaven forbid, wind up surpassing them in your field–there’s hell to pay!)

Another reason I think Saturn is involved is because Saturn rules boundaries, and boundaries or the lack thereof can make or break a mentorship relationship.

 I had some excellent mentors in high school, college and early on in my astrology career, and I owe them so much. (It’s a positive expression of my Venus-Saturn conjunction in the 11th house.  There have got to be rewards for a placement like that, right?)  Over the years, I paid it forward by functioning as a mentor to a number of very worthy people, mostly in astrology, and loved the role.

 Here’s a question I have been wrestling with for a while. Now and again someone I don’t know from Adam will write to ask me if I will be their mentor. Some of them don’t even bother to spell check their request. These unsolicited proposals always put me off seriously, but then I’d feel guilty that maybe I was being elitist.

 (Now that I’m older, I honestly don’t have the stamina to be committed to someone in that way. Rather than working with individual clients or students, my focus at this point in my life is to leave behind as much of my knowledge and experience as possible to the field as a whole, with this blog as the chosen venue.)

In thinking through who I’ve been comfortable mentoring, it was usually someone I knew and whose work I was already familiar with. (It’s really not a commitment that it’s fair to ask of a stranger.) 

Most importantly, I have to feel that their work or their mind shows great potential. In short, these are hard-working, businesslike, high quality people I believe in and whose work has integrity and a deep commitment to honesty.  As one of the commenters below noted, it’s a shared committment to a set of standards.

Sometimes they are people I run across and am favorably impressed with, such as some of the first-time authors in The Mountain Astrologer. I make it a practice to write them a fan letter or note on their blog, and so the relationship develops from that.  I had wonderful encouragement on my writing from my early mentor Rod Chase, and I remember what it felt like. 

Joyce’s exposition of mentorship as related to Chiron is here on her “spirited living” blog, Hot Flashbacks/Cool Insights: http://hotflashbackscoolinsights.blogspot.com/2008/10/mentors-and-my-favorite-myth.html.

See an earlier article about mentorship here: “Conventional Wisdom”–Is the Advice of our Mentors an Asset or a Thought Form that Holds Us Back?

What about you, reader?  Have you ever had a mentor or been a mentor?  What is your experience of this complex yet important relationship? And what astrological connections did you see?  Tell us about it in the comment section.

Note: Though I’m not available as a mentor, I haven’t run out of things to say by a long sight!  The book I’m proudest of is Counseling Principles for Astrologers:  Becoming an Effective Change Agent, a text for the consulting astrologer. It takes my background of a Master’s degree in Social Work and translates it to the framework of the astrology session.  There are chapters on:

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  • communicating clearly and initiating a dialogue
  • vocational astrology sessions
  • working with the charts of children and teens
  • ethical issues that arise in the course of a session
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 If you’re a professional astrologer or studying to become one, add this book to your professional library for $15 at Moon Maven Publications.

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Responses

  1. I never thought about her astrologically before, but a woman I consider my art teacher/mentor/friend is a bit older and a Capricorn. I have Saturn in my 7th with a Cap moon at the end of my 8th, Cap through the 9th and at the start of my 10th. Cap moon may say my mentor is female? I respect her humility, self-discipline, her work itself and her commitment to always doing her best and never cutting-corners. She’s always demonstrated virtues I aspire to, and a benchmark to measure myself by.

    • It sounds like a perfect fit. Cap Moon is the consummate professional, and for her to have a Cap Sun, especially if they are conjunct, is a tremendous professional connection. Good work ethic all around. Donna

  2. Hello Donna! I think I commented about mentors and their role in my life in your responses, and I can affirm your points. Thank goodness the vast majority of them have been positive for me, and indeed gave me professional guidance (and were able to effectively provide personal guidance in special circumstances).

    One thing I can say is the best mentors have been where we picked each other. Perhaps it had to do with a mutual attraction based on our relationship’s potential??

    It’s so interesting that you wrote about this today. I met with my current one yesterday (and right when the Moon in the 11th house opposed my current Saturn transit, that which conjuncts my natal Venus). She gave me some “tough love” about some career matters.

    Her words were initially hard for me to swallow. I saw a lot of truth in what she said, and also acknowledged that she also gave some affirmations. I also felt that she wasn’t trying to be destructive, but give someone “the 411″ and a reality check. It was one cold shower, but one I needed.

    What she told me was related to my problems with asserting myself at work, something which I recently started to address (and right when the Chiron/Neptune thing is on my midheaven). I can’t say it’s a coincidence. I picked a toughy to be my mentor (and people thought I was insane to pick her), but… maybe secretly that was what I needed?

    Thanks so much for your sharing in this particular entry. It was quite moving for what I’ve been trying to address in my career.

    • Not easy to take a session like that–partly because we feel we’ve let the mentor–and ourselves–down. It sounds like you share the same high standards–which I should also add to the post. Shared standards.

      And also as you seem to be saying (“the best mentors have been where we picked each other. Perhaps it had to do with a mutual attraction based on our relationship’s potential??”) there has to be an affinity. I don’t know what rules affinity. 11th house, maybe, or chart contacts. Donna

  3. Saturn or Chiron? I would say both, but then I do have Saturn-Conjunct Chiron in Pisces the 11th, so it’s a bit hard to unravel them!

    In my non-astrological working life I’ve always tried to be a good mentor for younger, less experienced people, even if unofficially. As my astrological practice and experience grows, I hope to be able to do the same with budding astrologers one day :D

    • Ah, that’s my problem with Chiron, too–in my chart it’s conjunct Pluto, Mars, and the Ascendant, so it’s hard to tease out its actual effects.

      As for being an astrological mentor, Mandi, the same law of magnetic attraction that governs who comes as clients governs the mentor relationship as well–the people who are attracted are the ones who need what you already possess. Donna

  4. ive got saturn in aquarius in house 9 conjunct me gemini ascendant ruler. I teach english but have some problems in getting disciplined and comunicating clearly
    born- 9 jan 1962
    14.15 in lisbon,portugal

    paulo

  5. I think that perhaps the connection between Chiron and mentors is that, since Chiron indicates the area where we are “wounded,” a good mentor can provide us psychological and emotional as well as practical guidance.

    My Chiron is in Aquarius and I find Aquarians to be very helpful to me in being examples on how to live my life in a more fulfilling way.

    • I agree Jack. At least in my case.
      I also have Chiron in Aquarius in the 5th house. My mother was an Aquarian, a very deep and wonderful woman who touched me spiritually. Also, I studied metaphysical subjects for many years (on and off) who was also an Aquarian.
      In both cases, both people were spiritual mentors for me.

      • I meant studied with another woman, who was also an Aquarian.

    • Like your ideas, Jack, on mentors, house position link, and psychological guidance. In the end, even physical wounding is emotional for the stress of dealing with it. Most of our wounds involve, in the broader sense, a feeling of disconnect with community and/or the divine. My Chiron is in the 6th near the DSC, sextile Moon. My strongest mentors who have helped me through my “emotional stuff” are people I met in my government work–amazing, lifelong friendships where you could honestly say we mentor each other. They have primarily been women. And in my astrology career, there has been Donna, of course. (Thank you, dear Sky Writer!) Of course, she wrote the book about being a lunar type in a solar world. So the work, friendship, and lunar connection my Chiron placement implies have played out in multiple mentors, each cheering on each other’s growth.

  6. Hi, Donna—

    Thanks for the mentioning me on this topic, one of my favorites! I talk about mentoring in reference to Chiron in this article on my “spirited living” blog, Hot Flashbacks/Cool Insights: http://hotflashbackscoolinsights.blogspot.com/2008/10/mentors-and-my-favorite-myth.html.

    Even though Chiron was clearly in a teacher and mentor role to the heroes he turned out on Mt. Pelion, I don’t believe mentoring is the exclusive realm of any one astrological planet or house. I think that’s true of many roles or energetics in life. For example, we don’t love with just our Venus. Mercury, Mars, Neptune and at times the whole planetary lot get in on the act in one way or another. A mom doesn’t just do the job through her Moon. She’d better use some Saturn or suffer turning out brats, LOL!

    I think Saturn, the 9th and 11th are all involved—certainly Saturn. Rule #1 for a mentor is that he or she has more experience, which often means they are older than their mentee. Chiron is connected with a certain style of mentoring that brings out the best in someone, not just for their own sake, but for the contribution their talents will make to society. It’s not just about conferring knowledge but helping the mentored person find his or her way and to take their most fulfilling place in the world. That usually coincides with what will most help others, too, using their unique skills.

    I have a 9th House Moon in Capricorn and Jupiter in the 7th. I have thoroughly enjoyed my mentor role with my young friend Kayla, now a sophomore in college.

    Since Chiron is the bridge between Saturn and the outer planets, I think of Chiron as bringing the Saturnian wisdom and experience forward to evolve it to its next stage, often in a new generation. Saturn is old; the outer planets, especially Uranus, are new. Chiron helps us cross the bridge between Then and Now, weaving the wisdom of the past into the future.

    • All good thoughts, Joyce, and I’ve added the link to your article at the bottom of this post. You’re right that no one planet governs mentorship, which is a multifaceted relationship.

      After I wrote this, I was thinking that there are probably mentors for all the planetary functions. Like Venus–the older sister or cousin who teaches a teen girl how to flirt and get along with guys is a Venus mentor. Donna

      • Donna, I really like the idea of mentors for all the planetary functions!

  7. Are you saying I would look for connections between my Saturn and the 9th house and possibly 11th house and Chiron to see if someone would be a good mentor?

    I have never really had a mentor that I can remember, and I think it would have been a good thing for me.

    I have Saturn in Virgo in my 4th and I have always been willing to teach someone else something I know. Also Chiron in the 6th, and Aquarius on the 9th house. I might take a look at any of my friends charts to see if anything connects to those houses. Maybe I have a mentor I have overlooked.

    Lately I have felt that I might be wasting my time trying to continue to study astrology because there is so much to learn, and I am getting long in the tooth. :) I feel like I need another person to talk to in person to bounce things off of. I am realizing that this is a subject that takes a lot of time to learn.

    • LOL! Actually those of us who really ARE long in the tooth delight in learning astrology–we have the time and the life experience and are not saddled with so many responsbilities.

      And, no you’ll never really learn all there is to learn about astrology, and that’s part of why we love it so much. It continues to unfold and enrich as the ever more complex world we live in unfolds.

      With Aquarius in the 9th, perhaps you’re meant to be self-taught or part of a study group of friends with the same interests rather than accepting one teacher/mentor’s authority. Donna

    • Funny, I was thinking exactly the same: Never had a mentor but always almost envied people who were guided or even gived a lift up by more experienced people interested in their development. Saturn is in my 4th house too but in Libra. Seems like we have to mentor ourselves. My therapist used to say that I seem too self-sustained and just not “needy” enough ;-)

      Chiron in my 11th together with the sun and mercury, however, has always provided me with good advice from close friends I can talk to.

      My empty 9th house with Pisces on its cup so far hasn’t meant anything to me.

  8. Well, I had a mentor for two years, but she has recently well, dumped me and everybody else in our circle. (I guess that’s her way of saying that she is out of the business entirely.) It is REALLY socially awkward right now when I am still friends with HER mentor, and the part where she ignores me when she sees me at the store. Her mentor is stuck in the middle and just avoids mentioning her to me now.

    Ex-mentor is a Virgo rising which hits in my 11th. Oddly enough, this did not happen during Saturn in Virgo, go figure.

    • It may not have happened as an EVENT for her during Saturn in Virgo, but I’d wager it began as a PROCESS internally during that period. That she felt worn down by the responsibility of being mentor to a circle of people who ought now to be able to fly on their own.

      Perhaps she finally reached a place of having to set limits while Saturn crossed back and forth between Virgo and Libra….and maybe when Saturn moved into Libra or good, she may have felt unloved for her own self, only for the semi-parental role she was playing in the circle. (Just guessing!) Donna

  9. I don’t like the idea of it. I was raised as an ‘enfant terrible’, and though I failed to become one, I did keep the attitude.(!) I’m a DIY person and one obsessed with carving my own unique path in whatever I do- otherwise, it’s just not worth it. My teachers always sensed that about me and let me have it my way, granting me the appropriate time and space.

    What puts me off about it is that a)when you’re mesmerised it’s hard to keep your edgy-ness sharp, b)when you’re hanging out with tradition you’re more reluctant to debunk it and c)when someone always has your back you’re less likely to get off track (and to me you can’t really be creative without taking foolish risks and being wrong from time to time). So having a mentor is like taking a shortcut -far less interesting and sometimes even detrimental to one’s advancement.

    That said, it would be unfair on my part not to acknowledge a few teachers of mine as my mentors. And the mentor-like thing about them -apart from that dynamite attraction that other people here have mentioned- was their omnipresence in my mind: when I was reading a book, I was wondering what their take on it would be, when I was reading THEIR books, I was looking for hints that would serve as a backdoor inside their way of thinking, I was working lomg nights trying to write the perfect paper in order to earn their admiration,I was studying my butt out to be worthy of their respect, I was quick to buy every book-cd- whatever they said they liked, and so on.

    Coz when you’re just starting out on sth, the end of the road is still too foggy, you don’t know exactly what it is you want to do or how to go about it, you only know that you wanna make a difference, and until you manage to give your rather vague ideas shape and form, a mentor’s thumbs up is the closest you’ll ever get to a tangible proof that you’re doing something- anything! right.

    To me these very few people were like god’s eye watching me, making me wanna push myself further. And for that, I’ll always be grateful to them, though I’ve never took the time to tell them..-But I’m sure they already know, there’s always been a sort of silent understanding and distant camaraderie between us!-

    P.S. Astrologically, I think it’s a jupiter-neptune blend, a combination of thirst for knowledge-faith-craving to belong to a team or an effort larger than you. My sister is a sun conj. neptune in sag in the 12th and she’s been mentor shopping all of her life (but, then again, she’s also a cap. moon!)

    • Brilliant observations, VR. We’re really getting deep into this whole question. I’d say what you seem to be tapping into is the edge between Saturn and Uranus (oops, isn’t that Chiron, the bridge between the two?) And the possibility of getting stuck in Saturn when you take on a mentor, instead of developing your individuality.

      On the other hand the entirely self-taught never get the benefit of what someone else has learned from their own mistakes–may never correct their own areas of error and may pass it on to new generations. A very complex area of our soul development, this is. Donna

      • Donna-ji (ji is an expression from India, expressing respect for those who are elders) said :
        “the entirely self-taught never get the benefit of what someone else has learned from their own mistakes–may never correct their own areas of error and may pass it on to new generations”

        Precisely.

        While I have no comments to add on this topic – I’ve just found my first mentor ever, what an awesome experience! – Thanks for the article, ver y thought provoking!

  10. I vote for Saturn. I am currently thinking about mentoring some young woman (through an organization) while going through #2 Saturn return…

    • Interesting, Mimi–of course, mentorship would be a Saturn experience for the mentors as well, a responsibility accepted. It’s a review, in a way, of how far they themselves have come on their career path. Donna

  11. Hmmm, really not sure on this one. I have not really had a mentor to date. A couple of times situations started to develop where an older more experienced figure (teacher or professional) was trying to help me out. Then it turned out they were trying to help themselves get access to my pants :( . I have Saturn in a stellium with Jupiter, Merc, Pluto, and Sun all in Libra, all in 7th house excepting Sun in 8th. A lot of confusion there about who’s on first. Also my Saturn is in a sextile to Venus 9th. At least the situations were usually friendly albeit frustrating.

    My Chiron (end of 2nd) is in a T square with Mars (6th) and Uranus (9th). So I probably have some issues with independence, stubbornness, etc. People always tell me how teachable I am though which is weird, since no one wants to invest time to actually teach me. The feedback I get is that I somehow present an image of being a teacher or mentor myself, and people think I’m being modest (or stuck-up) when I ask for help, or tell them that I really don’t have much figured out at all. Again, frustrations. Really it seems like it comes down to learning everything the hard way, by myself.

  12. I also wanted to note that some people that I look up to or are inspired by are people I’ve never met in person…as for astrology, one of them’s right here! {hug}

    • Aw., shucks!! I remember one time I was giving a weekend worshop in Dublin (Ireland, not Georgia!). At the party at the end, one of the charmimg Patricks told me that he’d had a Jupiter return lately and had been looking forward to what it would bring. And that week of the return he’d read one of my books and had the realization that that book was his Jupiter return. Aw, shucks! I have truly had a blessed life. Donna

      • Actually, now that I think about it, most of the outer planets really might have to do with teaching. Also house placements. For instance, I’m sure Uranus and Pluto have plenty to say about teaching and lessons. My Uranus in the 9th could explain unconventional, electric [!] ways of learning/teaching- explaining why I’ve learned so much from various “mentors” on the internet.

      • Yes, because the outer planets each have a set of universal lessons for us to master, and it takes many years to do that…we often don’t really get a handle on some of them until our Saturn return, ca. 28-30. Which probably corresponds with some Chiron cycle Joyce could tell us about. Donna

    • haha I agree with Dizzy and I’ve had the bonus of working on my english to be able to post!

  13. My astrology mentor’s Saturn is in my 11th; her Sun conjuncts my Chiron in the 7th. Her Moon/Uranus conjuncts my Sun/Mercury in the 2nd.

    There are also multiple connections from my planets to her Part of Astrology.

  14. I love the many facets of this conversation. Mentors come in all shapes, sizes and astro-configurations, and as noted, they can even be a book–or a favorite movie or TV show/character. Whatever way we learn from others’ experience is a form of mentorship.

    I’m a long-time Toastmaster, and it’s the custom among Toastmasters internationally to assign a mentor to each new member. This is someone who’s been a TM longer and can help teach the newbie the ropes in terms of customs, buzz words, etc. I’d like one of those in every new experience!

    The most dramatic Chiron cycle is the Chiron Return at age 50-51. While experience and mentoring can come at any age, I suspect that’s when most people in general are ready to be a mentor. They’ve completed several other major initiations, including the midlife transits of T-Pluto square N-Pluto, T-Neptune square N-Neptune, T-Uranus opposite N-Uranus, and T-Saturn square N-Saturn. Developing the experience to mentor does seem to involve major cycles of Saturn + the outer planets. Since Chiron is said to bridge between them, all these major transits from ages 40-50 can become a boot camp for honing one’s mentoring skills.

    • Thank you, Joyce. Have followed your writings, lo, these many years! Would that be the “rainbow bootcamp”?…of course, we’ve all atteneded…best, Berta

      • Thanks, Berta. Great to hear you’ve been following the Chiron conversation for a long time! And whatever we call the boot camp, for sure you’d get there by crossing a rainbow bridge.:) It would have those little first aid boxes mounted along the way with band-aids and salve to take care of our wounds we’re nursing along the way. I often muse on what “Chiron school” would look like. Chiron was teacher, mentor, healer, physician, herbalist, and astrologer. What a Renaissance man/horse! Since a lot of the skills he taught were very practical, I also think of it at Mt. Pelion Tech or Technical Institute. Thanks for taking me there.

  15. I have Neptune in Libra in that 11th house and I think I constantly misjudge friends and teachers. As for mentors they have been few and far between. I am just getting the fact I seem to have illusions about all my friends.

    • With Neptune involved where teachers or mentors are concerned, it is too easy to surrender oneself totally and give up listening to one’s own inner guidance (or, frankly, common sense). And with the 11th, that would especially urge caution where spiritual groups are concerned. (Does the name James Arthur Ray ring any bells?) Donna

  16. Nice! my first thought was Saturn, but I like what Joyce said about a several planets involved. I really need to learn more about Chiron to comment but makes sense…I also think Jupiter has to do with mentoring, to help others to expand their horizons and the generosity necessary to do so.
    I guess finding how these 3 are related in a chart can give a good picture: inspiration to find our gifts, the responsibility and discipline to work for it plus generosity to allow growth and fly and/or let others fly.
    I’ve had good experiences with mentor like figures. My 5th and last year in college was devoted to an extensive thesis project, my natal Mars/Nept opposition in 9th and 3rd , was activated first by pluto and jupiter opposing by transit, the saturn pluto opp by transit. It is also the spine of a kite and neptune in transit was conj my venus (ruler of my 9th) all that time, activating the kite from the 5th. Is interesting that not only my Tutor/Mentor for the thesis has his Leo sun in my 11th, but eventually when Jupiter crossed my MC I started teaching and the other professors that were coaching me in the process where also related to my 5th 11 and 9th houses. It was an exciting and productive (…and exhausting) time for me and we are still good friends, there is a lot of respect and mutual admiration, probably shown the trine between saturn conj MC and Jupiter in 6th.

    As for chiron, I have no clue, is in aries in 7th and only has a quintile to Venus and a semisextile to the Sun.

  17. I think Chiron is more about healing and Saturn is more on mentorship.Saturn is the teacher that make you do your homework,your duties becouse he knows that`s best for you.
    I would like to mention about the interaspects in a mentor – protégé relationship.Sometimes Chiron is involved,but i think Saturn is always there.I`ve seen Saturn from a person acting as a teacher or a mentor sitting on the MC of his apprentice.
    The 9th house can be involved, the 11th, but it can be 2nd/8th. Aspects from mentor Saturn to personal planets of his protégé also applies.
    And to share from my own experience…My mentor and i share a Saturn-Saturn opposition being 14 years older than me and a Sun/Mercury conjunction sitting on my Saturn in a very close orb.His Saturn is in Capricorn, on my 2nd house.He learned me a lot about self-esteem,values beside other things.It`s not an easy relationship,sometimes he is too hard on me,Saturn opposite Saturn have their arguments,but in the end a appreciate his role in my life.

  18. You are a wonderful mentor Donna. Having your encouragement meant a lot to me. And this whole site has that combination of quality-control (Saturn) and generosity which I think are key elements to mentoring.

    A good mentor doesn’t let you slack. Saturn again.

    I agree with what others have said, but I’d add that generosity of spirit to the mix. And I’d say that’s Jupiter. So a good mentor combines the two teacher planets. The other thing that Jupiter gives is confidence. In other words, a good mentor helps the mentee feel he or she can do it.

    In my case my partner is my biggest mentor and yes I have Saturn-Chiron in the seventh, and his Jupiter conjuncts my Sun in the seventh. Yippee.

  19. I agree about different sorts of mentors, Donna!
    And maybe we are also meant to have and to meet a certain kind of mentor. As shallow as it may sound the people that have influenced me the most were Venus mentors and I think it is partly because I have Pisces/ 12th house Venus and 1st house Taurus NN. I don’t know Venus all that well, so everything about her draws my attention.
    One more thing, if you could shed some light on it: everywhere I go people listen to me and in the workplace they start calling me ‘boss” (i am not authoritative, I just do my job with discipline), people I become friends with seem to actually listen to what I say and take my words as valuable. I don’t want to be hyprocritical here (it was interesting for a while), but years later I find out that something I said (maybe in a moment of melancholy, anger, etc.) changed the way someone saw and led her life, changed the relationship with her estranged father, etc. And I am happy, scared and frustrated in the same time.
    I am glad I did something good, scared because I accidently did it (and if I accidently did good, maybe I accidently did a bad thing to someone else) and frustrated because I wish there was someone with similar influence in my life – because I could really use a guiding light right now.
    I don’t want to be a mentor, from where I am standing I have nothing to share or teach – I have nothing. And I don’t know how to send this message without totally humiliating myself, I don’t know how to tell them that a blind cannot lead the blinds.
    People should choose their mentors carefully and watch themslves in the moments when they are at their most vulnerable. Otherwise, we run the risk of bulding false prophets. There is a difference between real mentors and people tranformed into mentors because of people’s expectations.

    • Here is the “similar influence” you asked for…(awaiting Donna’s feedback here)…they may have called you “boss”,- but were they thinking “JUDGE”…? Your 12th Venus/Pisces wouldn’t really enter into that equation, quite the contrary. Look to your Chiron, Saturn, and any 9th house placements, especially as the advice was unsolicited. (I was nick-named “the Judge” before I could talk).
      As a double Capricorn, (12th Sun exactly conjunct Chiron and Fortunata), -Saturn in my Libra 9th stellium),–I am no longer surprised by the scenario you describe. I could be in a crowd when someone yelled “FIRE” and, sho’nuff, half those present would look to me for advice before they ran for the exits.
      I was touched by your mention of “humiiation”, “false prophets” and “blindness”…yet,- a whiff of “the lady doth protest too much” leads me to suspect that you have at least subconsciously overcome the angst you claim…because you KNOW that “in the dark all cats are gray”…. at least within the Jungian shadow. Check those nodes/Pluto!
      Best wishes, Berta

  20. I was very blessed with a knowlegable intelligent mentor that I respected when I was going through some really tough times. She has a Libra Sun. She suggested many booksfor me to read to help form my own ideas. She was also my methphysical teacher and helped me tap into myself. I also got some really cold showers from her at times especially when I needed to make some tough decisions but was able to work through them and become a stronger person. At other times I received encouragement.

    I have Chiron conjunct Jupiter in Libra part of a cardinal t sq with Sun Venus Cap and Saturn Mars in Cancer that takes in a lot of areas of life.

    I have sag on my IC so was also very happy to pass along anything I learned to others.

  21. I’ll vote for Saturn, too. The Chiron energy is too painful for most people, I think, to be associated with being mentored. Healing, the flip side of pain, fits Chiron better.

    Perhaps it’s Pluto in Leo at the cusp of my 11th house which has seen to it that I have never had a mentor in the classic form. I keep my eyes and ears open, read a lot, and learn a lot from observation and from my own experiences (Saturn is in my 1st house), but even just the thought of having a mentor makes me feel edgy. The pattern in my life has been that the people who fill roles in my life that might otherwise lead me to expect teaching and guidance from them too often just want something from me. I spent my childhood being admired and put on a pedestal when I really just wanted to be peers with the other children. I’ve filled a mentoring role for others sometimes (Saturn in House 1), but that is not particularly comfortable for me, either. I also have Neptune in House 1, conjunct Saturn, and having people look up to me makes me feel like they don’t know me very well, almost as though they are deliberately throwing up a false image of me to admire.

  22. Mentor figures were always important to me, even without closer relationship. Among my friendships there were always one or two where mentoring role was present from my side.
    I left my marketing manager job a year ago and I started teaching what I love most: horse riding! It makes me feel so alive when I can show the way to young and older, green or experienced riders how to get along with a horse and see them both relaxed and happier with each other.
    I have Saturn in the 9th with an exact trine to my Sun-Venus conjunction and Chiron right on my DC with no other aspect. (And Jupiter in 5th trine Mars :))

    • Gabby, with Chiron right on the DSC, it’s no surprise you’d love horses! And have good relationships with them. :) There’s a post on my blog about Horse being one of Chiron’s key words since mythical Chiron was half-horse. Take a look if you haven’t already, and happy trails on mentoring people to ride. What a wonderful vocation.

      http://radicalvirgo.blogspot.com/2010/09/chirons-keyword-corner-horse.html

      • Hi Joyce,

        Thanks for your confirmation! :) Actually I just realized that fact with Chiron and horses as I finished my comment… :) I have never felt that my Jupiter-Mars trine would be enough for that love that I have for horses :).
        And what a great article! Thank you!

  23. I have Chiron Rx Aries in 11th/10th house and Saturn in Leo in 2nd/3rd house

    My step father was my mentor and he was a Leo sun sign. He was extremely creative and an artist. That’s all I know about his astrology. My husband is an Aries sun/leo moon/leo rising and he helped me find the artist within me. I also have a close friend/boss, who has his own Video making/Graphic Design business, who is a Leo sun/Leo Moon/Leo Ascendant and he’s also like a mentor to me.

  24. I have both Chiron and Saturn in Aries.

    I’ve never really had a mentor, nor did I ever seek out this kind of relationship. It just never occurred to me as a possibility.

  25. Thank you for your answer, Berta!
    You are right, I have overcome the angst but I find it is a permanent battle as well.
    You think they actually mean ‘judge’ – you could be right in the sense that they need their work and their personalities assesed or judged. I have Saturn cnj SN in Scorpio, 7th house – if there is one thing I can do, that is judge! (but I am limiting this ‘quality’ of mine because I do not like it much and find it ineffective)

    • Very glad that you didn’t find my response too critical. Could have phrased it better. We Saturnines can be blunt…(and always second-guessing ourselves). Good luck!

  26. Followed the blog but cant came to a conclusion. Please help me out.

  27. I’ve never had a mentor. I feel that I’ve had to walk my path on my own. I’m very self sufficient and I don’t think anyone would consider that I *needed* a mentor and so would not offer! I was asked, a few months ago, who my most influential teachers were. I struggled to think, but chose a friend of 4 years and yourself :)

    I’d say it’s mostly Saturn’s role. Mine is in Leo in the 9th.

  28. Hello Donna,

    I’ve considered you one of my teachers through your books.
    During the years I lived in S. Korea, I ordered your a number of your books through the mail, (title my be off) Healing Pluto Issues, stood out as a core seed to my healing at the time. -Pluto making its way over my Sun at the time, I have tons of pluto contacts in my chart and astro-cartographically, I was sitting right on Pluto for 6 years. (Seoul, Korea)…

    Your book was balm for me at the time. Thank-you!!!!! Waves of Gratitude back to You.

    Mentorship: I have Saturn /Chiron conjunct in Pisces in the 6th (opposite Pluto/Uranus) and I have had plenty of mentors. and plenty of complicated relationships with them. Only now at the age of 45, am I really able to have stable boundaries for myself in the role of apprentice. I’m still being mentored! I’ve learned to take what I like and learn from the rest!

    Blessing to You. I’m grateful to the insights you share and the playful spirit with which you share them! Tricia

  29. I’ve only met one mentor in my life, and I am most grateful!

    I have Chiron in Aquarius in the 8th, and Aquarius on the 8th house cusp, and I believe that Chiron is more about healing, but it can also represent mentorship in relation to relating to people on a deeper level. Also, Sun in the 8th can relate to people on a much deeper level.

  30. Thank you so much for a wonderful and intriguing original piece.. enjoyed and thought about it and also the interesting responses..

    in my opinion,,, we are inter-mixing three Different Phenomenons as One and that is causing confusion, namely confusing between;
    1- Mentor
    2- Messiah
    3- Guide

    Chiron will definitely go with Healing or MESSIAH, People with Chiron aspects tend to feel instinctively the Pain someone else carries, and if they know the what will heal, they step in and give that. The underlying base is the ”Pain” and there is possibility that they overcame their own pain somehow. In this relation, the 12th and maybe the 8th house aspects would work.

    (I have Chiron in 8th and I am a doctor, and all I **really** wish to do is to work as sex-therapist.. I can feel with the pain of being stuck and being in sexuality problems)

    9th house aspects as thought above, and discussed in original piece, hmmm.. would be best suited to Guide/ Teacher phenomenon.. having links with saturn will ground the vision, and probably with 11th will result in type of Forum/ Discussion Group/ Group Therapy/ even a Website. ;-)

    Guides are less interested in over-all phenomenon, less than healers and mentors for sure.. there is a coupled Empathy but not a true Personalized attachment.


    For Mentors, I would go with Venus- Saturn hard aspects, even Pluto-Saturn addition will add more zing. Due to Saturn in aspect, the Mentors most suited would be Saturnian type, perhaps.

    Mentor-ship is most personalized, and is strictly One-to-One, it is not universal and not uni-lateral, Mentor him/herself is trying to reach something through the instrument he/she finds in Venus-Saturn person. I believe it does involve healing, possession and sense of sculptural finesse. Mentors do not plan to be mentors, not do they expect so much from themselves that they end up doing for the person.

    the catch is though that not only they should not be taken as father figures or static-line in deep sea for survival,, they also should NOT be given total control, for then they end up being Masters. Its a very delicate balance, and the chemistry is definitely electric.

    (My Mentor had Moon in Capricorn and Venus too, and his moon conjunct my NN)

    One last thing, only Venus-Saturn aspect is not all, there are inter-aspects in the charts, and I can bet, for any life altering experience, there is definite involvement of NN and vertex, or both)

    thank you again for a lovely article.
    best,

    • I like the 3-way distinction you’re making, SS.

      I have the Saturn-Venus square, and have had wonderful mentors and hopefully been a good one too. What a gift, for both parties! Donna


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