Posted by: Donna Cunningham | July 7, 2011

Understanding Narcissism–New Insights into Ryan O’Neal

© 7-7-11 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

Yesterday, after finishing the post on Ryan and Tatum O’Neal, I decided it was time for a break, so I walked half a block to the nearest Starbucks. (A tough life, I know.) As so often happens in my work, it wasn’t really a break from the writing, but a serendipitous continuation of the process.

There’s a magazine stand, and after leafing through an astronomy magazine, my eyes lit on the current issue of Psychology Today.  

The cover featured an article on narcissism, with the following teaser: “You can’t help falling for them, and by the time you’ve gleaned their true colors, you’re hooked —and possibly hurt. Welcome to the contradictory universe of narcissism.” 

Ryan O’Neal wasn’t mentioned—but the whole article could have been written as a case history of him and his major relationships. It talks about why people are so drawn to them and why they can become so abusive to others. Here’s a sample:

“If narcissists were just jerks, they would be easy to avoid. The fact that they are entertaining and exciting as well as aggressive and manipulative makes them compelling in the real world and as subjects of psychological scrutiny. A cross section of the narcissist’s ego will reveal high levels of self-esteem, grandiosity, self-focus, and self-importance. They think they are more physically attractive and intelligent than just about everyone, and would rather be admired than liked. They are enraged when told they aren’t beautiful or brilliant but aren’t affected much if told they are jerks.”

 As it turns out, we’re also continuing the thread on self-esteem, because narcissism and grandiosity are a poisonous twist on the search for self-worth. So where would I spot narcissism in Ryan O’Neal’s chart? (See the link below.)  I’d look for it in aspects to his Sun, of course. 

His Sun is part of his 11th house Taurus stellium—so the issue of belonging is acute for him, and could contribute to his narcissism. The Sun is only half a degree from a conjunction to Venus, both at 0° Taurus, and I do often find Sun-Venus conjunctions quite narcissistic or at least insatiable in their need for attention and admiration. What makes it an obsession, however, is that Pluto at 2° Leo is tightly square both the Sun and Venus. 

So are people who are strongly Leonian–Sun, Moon, Ascendant or several planets in that sign–prone to narcissism?  You betcha. Show me a Leo who doesn’t have a  strong ego, and I’ll show you a Leo with tough aspects to their Sun. 

Here’s my article on Ryan and Tatum O’Neal, with links to their charts and bios:  Ryan and Tatum O’Neal – Stelliums and Symbiosis  You can read most of Psychology Today’s fascinating and enlightening article online here:  How to Spot a Narcissist.

Oh, and if you’re wondering if you–or someone you’re involved with–could be a narcissist, here are some related articles on the Psychology Today site:

Readers, do you know any narcissists?  What aspects in their chart do you attribute it to?  Let us know in the comment section.

Other Articles about Celebrities on Skywriter:

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Responses

  1. What a relief when I went to check the link: Am I narcissistic? it looks like I’m not too bad…phew… but both of my parents have some of the traits.

    Both have pluto and saturn in Leo as many of their generation. Dad had them squared to a stellium in scorpio. Mom has a triple conjunction in Leo: mars, saturn and pluto opposing mercury in aq. and as the spine of a kite. They were great in many ways, but is no wonder that me and my sister have had trouble asserting ourselves. My sister also has saturn in leo (in 4th house, no less), plus venus and she’s had to work more in that area.

    My Leo dearest friend had Sun conjunct Saturn in 10h. Scorpio Asc. Not a flashy Leo, kind, loyal and warm, not so much to herself, sadly.

  2. I seem to be in the clear but what if Neptune is fogging my brain? (The link to the Quiz doesn’t seem to be working). Really interesting and a bit spooky. My mother has a conj with Sun Virgo 11’58 and Venus at 12’04”, about as tight as you can get. I recognised a lot of her in the article, I remember her as being very self-absorbed when I was a kid, not really paying much attention to the people around her. She’s always falling out with people, mostly because she expects everyone to submit to her. And that’s just not going to happen. She used to say she wanted us – her and her three daughers – to be like the Mafia, a close circle against the outside world – under total control is more like it. And I could far too easily see her as the Capo dei Capi. Did I mention I ran away from home when I was 17?

  3. What about Uranus and the first house as indicators of narcissism? The most narcissistic person I have ever come across has no significant Leo in her chart, but she has a powerful Moon/Mars/Pluto triple conjunction in her first house, and Uranus conjunct her Ascendant. She is a driven academic, quite bright, but has a long, sad trail of broken friendships and devastated relationships. She just moved away from the university town where I live, still looking for the perfect place to live, where everyone will fully appreciate her genius and give her the acclaim she deserves. She has relocated at least seven times this way in her career years, especially remarkable because she is a Cancer.

    • May I ask… Asc, Uranus, Moon, Mars and Pluto…. in which sign??

      • All in Virgo. And she has a Mercury-Venus conjunction in Gemini, as well; she definitely is blessed with great intelligence. Unfortunately, she feels the need to overestimate everybody else’s stupidity.

    • I don’t know about the person you’re talking about, but what I do sometimes see with Uranus conjunct the Ascendant isn’t exactly narcissism so much as a vast conceit–the belief that they are more brilliant, more evolved, more avant guard, more politically correct, more stylish, more of most anything. It’s an elitism that says everyone should listen to their views and visions of how the world ought to be and people who don’t are backward and stupid.

      Not quite the same as narcissism, but I don’t know quite how to articulate the difference. (Well, for one thing, they don’t want a clingy sort of entourage, because that would constrict their freedom.)

      My friend Karen McCauley and I were talking about this sort of thing over lunch today, and she said that she always sees both sides of the opposite signs represented–that Aquarians have a lot of Leo qualities and vice versa.

      I was reminded of one of the terrible lines I used to use in a standup routine at conferences: “An Aquarius is just a Leo with brains.” (That was before I got so evolved, ya know….smiley face.) Donna

      • I’m thinking another difference between the Uranian type you describe, and a true narcissist is that the narcissist is more out-of-touch with reality.

        I mean, let’s face it: the Uranian is more brilliant, more evolved, more avant guard, more politically correct, more stylish….

    • This prompted me to put my ex-husband back into Astro.com; he has a very tight TC of Venus-Uranus-Mercury 25-28 Gemini in his 2nd house opposing Jupiter in the 8th, another looser TC of Moon-Pluto-Saturn 4-21 Leo in his 4th and a Cancer Sun. Two things: 1) There is definitely something about Mercury,Uranus,Venus in Gemini where they think they are way more brilliant and witty than everyone else. 2) After I found out the truth about him, I couldn’t decide if he was just a narcissist or a psychopath; he was a cake & eat it too guy. So Donna, do you link narcissism with being a psychopath?

      Interesting that you’ve tied the narcissism discussion with low self-esteem, because in a recent discussion with my sister on why men lead double lives (prompted by Arnold I think), I listed a number of people and when I got to my ex, she said, “Insecurity.”

      • I think the earliest research paper I ever did in college was on psychopaths. I even took a Greyhound bus to a major library in a school of psychiatry to do the research.
        Alas,I don’t recall all the criteria, but I suspect all psychopaths are probably narcissists, because they lack the ability to empathize and only consider other people objects to manipulate. However, I don’t think I would go so far as to say that the converse is true–that all narcissists would therefore be psychopaths. For an expert answer to that, you’d probably have to go and read more by the people who are quoted in the Psychology Today articles I linked to. Donna

      • What about a sociopath? How does one differ from a psychopath and what is the relationship to narciscism?

      • Have a look at my earlier exchanges with Charles in tbhe comment section for this post–we covered that prettty thoroughly. Donna

    • Regarding the woman you describe, 4 planets in the 1st house of SELF-development may just be enough to be the kicker right there. I have a sister with 4 planets in Leo in the 1st (double kicker) and half of our conversations are me trying to get her to see others’ realities; she has difficulty seeing a viewpoint other than her own. Your friend has them all in Virgo, the sign of the perfectionist, so she’s always trying to become more perfect. So painful. And her Merc/Venus in Gem may square some of them. Maybe hers is a case of insecurity too, even though it doesn’t look like it at first glance. The truth of the matter is: where ever she goes, there she is. Pray for her.

      Donna, do you correlate arrogance with narcissism too?

      • OK, so I’ve now read the Psychology Today article and it does talk about both psychopaths and arrogance in relation to narcissism. It’s an excellent article. But this line really caught me: “Empathic women who are “caretakers” may also be drawn to narcissistic men, thinking erroneously that they will be able to alter negative traits.” Yep, Pluto is currently transiting my 12th. It takes two to tango, doesn’t it?

      • I think of arrogance as a personality trait which only rears itself within a particular context. Narcissism is a personality profile — i.e., a set of traits — that’s more inherent to the individual.

      • So if I get what you’re saying, narcissism is a core quality (the Sun is the core of our being), while arrogance is only one trait. (To me, arrogance is kind of Mars-y.) Not sure. Donna

      • As an example of what I’m talking about: a man’s female co-workers may think he’s arrogant, even if his male co-workers do not. On the other hand, it doesn’t matter who you are or what role you play in the person’s life; their narcissism will show, but it may take some time to notice a pattern.

      • “Empathic women who are “caretakers” may also be drawn to narcissistic men, thinking erroneously that they will be able to alter negative traits.” I can relate. (Blush, blush.)

      • Donna, I think of arrogance as more “micro.” you can be arrogant today, and not tomorrow. Certain people can bring out your arrogance, and not others. But when it happens, the term is fully warranted.

        Narcissism is more “macro.” The things a narcissistic person may do, taken separately, do not in themselves indicate a narcissistic personality. But when all those little things are considered as a whole, the pattern emerges.

        Charles

      • Exactly what I was trying to say. Donna

  4. If Narcissism means falling in love with oneself; having an excessive admiration of oneself or an arrested development in the baby stage; than other traits such as manipulative behavior , cruelty and aggression do not necessarily go hand in glove. The later traits can go with any other type of person.
    There is an Indian story about why the Deer Clan died out amongst the Ojibwe. It was because they were the most beautiful Clan and they started to act as if no other Clan was suitable to Marry. Soon each became so enthralled with themselves that even other Deer Clan people were not good enough to Marry. And that is how the Deer Clan died out.

  5. PS/ Venus in Leo is interesting. They seem to need time set aside each day for total attention…like a pet cat. Stroke their ego, play a while , give them treats and love them up. Then they are happy all day. Little children need this too. Its no skin off my nose to Love up someone I care about and make them happy.. But then I knew a woman who had Venus conjunct Jupiter in Leo who was ignored by her husband who took more time with their children. Shes a very unhappy camper.

    • Bingo! My husband! Every day he lists all of his accomplishments–washed the car, took out the garbage, changed the toilet paper roll (well maybe I’m exaggerating a little bit!) and expects me to gush about his goodness. If I do, all is well. And, of course, I do! (What I’m thinking is another matter.)

  6. Hi Donna

    I am not so good at astrology but one narcissistic person i had problems with had neptune conjunction sun and sun having hard aspects with chiron and mars.I think neptun might have some part at narcissisim by contributing to creation of ‘false self’. Wish you the best. Thanks for your articles.

    • Neptune-Sun creating a false self? I believe you’re right, Nil–that’s part of why they can be good at acting. Neptune can contribute to grandiosity as well. Donna

      • Hi Donna

        I think narcissism comes into scene when ego is not well developed. I mean hard aspects to sun. And neptune involvement is also needed. There is split ego problem in narcissism.True self which is not liked by narcissist and a narcissistic self.This friend of mine that i mentioned has mars conjunction chiron and both squaring sun.neptune is in conjunction with sun. It could be that her ego did not properly develop because of this chiron/mars opposition and neptune caused narcissistic self to develope.Best wishes.

    • Yes, I’ve known several people with very close conjunctions between Sun and Neptune. They were very appealing at first but within time revealed themselves to be absolute narcissists. (Neptune=the False; The Sun = the Self.) So Sun-Neptune can be the epitome of the ‘False Self’ that is often discussed in books on narcissism. That’s not to say every Sun Neptune person is a narcissist (just all the ones I’ve known.) Having Mars in hard aspect to the Sun, of course can make the person brass or arrogant. (With Chiron they might be the arrogant (Mars), self deceived (Sun-Neptune) “wounded healer”(Chiron) type. Possibly even a demi god healer or spiritual charlatan. (Even charlatans often have authentic healing & spiritual experiences, altruistic tendencies and many of the positive, musical traits of Neptune. Most people are a complex bundle of contradictions. That is why narcissists can be so alluring. They of course have a very, human, alluring side.)
      Also Chiron conjunct Mars can equal ‘Body Work’ or ‘Body Healing,’ a passion for healing, along with a certain impatience and confusion (Neptune) regarding illness.

  7. Here’s one that doesn’t exactly fit the magazine article description:
    Venus in late Taurus (11H) square Mars in early Pisces, Moon in early Virgo…plus also Mercury and the Sun in Taurus, widely conjunct the sun. Not promiscuous or very self confident, but very low on empathy, critical of others, and convinced that they were smarter than everyone else and much more deserving of success (not particularly successful, just constantly complaining they should get more recognition).

    Oh, and Mary — did he wash the car AND take out the garbage all in the same day! Woweee! Congratulations to him! :) But really, he sounds just needy; a real narcissist would get you to take out the garbage because they’re so busy doing the important thing, which is washing the car.

    • Maybe a true narcissist would get you to take out the garbage AND wash the car while they went for a mani/pedi. :)

    • Yes, Lia, all on the same day! He’s so amazing! Gush, gush!

  8. I have Leo Sun conj. Pluto but I don’t have an inordinate amount of Narcissism. My damn Saturn in Virgo in 12 keeps that in check. If I get too full of myself, I fall on my face, sometimes literally.
    I remember prancing into the room like queen on steroids back in my misspent youth and literally tripping and falling on my face like a fool.

    • Sigh, Meloh, so did we all in our terrible teens–figuratively if not literally! Donna

  9. My father in law has Venus conjunct Sun conjunct Jupiter in Aquarius square
    Taurus Moon/ and he is a pathological narcississt since he knows everything and has done everything. All this so called “self esteem” despite the fact that he has not had a job for years, is supported by his long suffering second wife, and is grossly overweight and uneducated. His Aquarius mercury is opposed by Pluto and he can and will talk everyone into unconsciousness.

  10. I should mention the toxic effect on his only son, my Gemini husband. Their relationship was and is that of competitive siblings, with the son always the loser.

  11. My father had strong narcissistic tendencies, along with a few nobler ones (he could be very heroic) – which made him a typically flawed human being. His Scorpio Sun was closely conjunct his Scorpio Ascendant, Venus and Saturn – all in the first house. Mercury in Sag was also conjunct and directly opposite his 7th house Moon in Gemini. His Scorpio stellium was square both his Neptune and Jupiter (in Leo and Aquarius, respectively).

    I think growing up, he’d received praise for his accomplishments but not much genuine affection or encouragement – everything was based on a kind of conditional (as opposed to a healthy) tough-love. His own mother and father probably had narcissistic tendencies of their own. He was valued in so far as he reflected back to the people who loved him their own very best qualities and strengths. Nothing else mattered and he parented his own children in much the same way – he was always a “responsible” parent who never really valued or encouraged any quality in his children that he didn’t view as an extension of himself. Also like many Narcissists, he tended to inflate the qualities of the people that admired him and to think much less of those who didn’t.

    Once I reached preadolescence and began to think more independently, my growing awareness became a threat to him. Most of the time he was hyper-critical or deeply disinterested – when riled, he could also be dangerous. Since I couldn’t be charmed or manipulated into stroking his ego, I became useless to him and because of that I had very little emotional attachment to my father.

    My love for him was more of a decision – he was my father and so I chose to act in a loving way towards him despite this absence of feeling. We did love each other though and he was capable – only his love had lots of strings attached. It was much easier for me to accept his limitations and lack of interest as I matured and found a soft-spot for his vulnerabilities – our relationship remained limited and to some extent one-sided until his death. I found his constant need for admiration very sad. He even felt threatened by my faith – once asking me if I loved God more than him. What he failed to understand was that it was that love that made it possible for me to love my dad in spite of not receiving much external validation from him.

    Although he could be very charming, his charm was generally reserved for those that hung on his every word or who reinforced his fragile sense of self. He was capable of being more self-aware (and he even experienced rare moments of remorse), but that square to Neptune didn’t help much and neither did his relationship with alcohol, which made it tougher for genuine self-examination to take place. He had so much potential – after he passed on, I took solace in the hope that he’d finally experienced the true meaning of unconditional love and acceptance.

  12. i wonder, what the difference between narcissism and a healthy strong boundary conscious ego is. is narcissism the shadow side of a relaxed acceptance of your self, and would the aspects be the same?

    • Interesting questions, Mads. I’d venture to say that a relaxed, healthy acceptance of self doesn’t have a shadow side..maybe it waxes and wanes, but is able to let others have their time in the sun (or Sun).

      My experiences with the flower essence Sunflower–both personal and by observation–is that it works toward a balanced ego. It helps those with low self-esteem to value themselves more and to have confidence, and it also works to balance out excessive ego by letting us see the worth of others as well. Donna

  13. Hoping my Sun in Libra saves me….

  14. In her movie, “Truth or Dare,” Ryan O’Neill famously accused Madonna of narcissism. He said something to effect of, “You don’t live off-camera…why would you do anything off-camera?” (Tried to look up the quote, but couldn’t find it). It’s many people’s opinion that he was far off the mark. Perhaps he was really describing himself. I suppose one trait of narcissists is that they can’t allow for — or even conceive of — traits in others that they themselves don’t possess.

    So, Donna, you spoke about the astrological indicators for narcissism, but what would be some of the astrological mitigators? Despite that Sun/Venus can be indicative, I’m guessing that the sign Libra can be an antidote. I suppose lots of oppositions would help, too.

    Charles

    • Hmm. I think Librans are capable of being quite vain and needing much validation of their attractiveness, so I don’t agree that it mitigates against narcissism. Maybe Sun trine Saturn would be a mitigator, as they are capable and the authority sits naturally on their shoulders. Donna

  15. It occurred to me that I’ve seen the pattern before: when others shine or are simply being themselves, they’re accused of narcissism by the narcissist. Out-of-touch indeed!

  16. Eee gads, I have Uranus and Moon conjunct my Ascendant in Leo, and a bunch of 1st house planets including Venus conjoined Pluto in Virgo. But I guess I can thank my Virgo Sun square Saturn (Saturn also trines my Ascendant planets) because I don’t fit any of the questions in Are You a Narcissist. I have Chiron opposite my Leo Moon, too.

  17. I’m liking the idea that an afflicted Sun — particularly with Neptune involved — may indicate narcissism. I know someone with Sun in Taurus in the 12th opposite Neptune in Scorpio. This person had a falling out with his cousin — a sweet girl who never hurt anybody. He wrote her a 12-page letter (typeset — not handwritten), detailing all the ways that she and her family were f***ed up. He believed that what he had to say was so important that the person being attacked and insulted would turn the page eleven times.

    • Which would also make Tatum O’Neal are narcissistic personality, with her Sun-Neptune conjunction in Scorpio. But then she was a film idol as a child star, and so many child stars are f**ed up. (Many of them, like Britney Spears, who started out as a Mouseketeer, have Pluto-Saturn aspects.) Donna

    • Hi

      I think Neptune opposing or squaring afflicted sun may mean borderline tendencies.

  18. Hmm, well… I have a sun/venus/mercury/jupiter conjunction in 11th, so I do understand the need to belong. And I do admit that the sun/venus conjunction gives me a great need to be admired, but I also lavish affection and admiration on pretty much anyone I consider close – and with my virgo sun, I expect nothing but your loyalty in return.

    Also my stellium (can I claim to have one considering the planets involved?) is loosely squaring pluto and I do have some plutonian traits in my personality, so it does seem as if O’Neal and I have some things in common… but I would absolutely not call myself a narcissist. I’d say I can be vain, proud, a bit controlling, bossy and somewhat self-centered at times, but I would never hurt anybody and nothing makes me happier than making other people feel safe, loved and happy.

    I’d say my cure is my sun/moon opposition; especially my pisces moon. Even though life isn’t easy with it, it keeps me humble.

    • Oh, and ps: my father has a sun/neptune conjunction as well as a venus/sun conjunction, and he is truly the least narcissistic person I know!

      • Lol, to add even more to my previous comment: it’s in scorpio too! I guess I got lucky when it comes to fathers!

      • My dreamboat guy is a late Scorpio Sun conjunct Neptune also conjunct Venus in Sag (sitting right on my Mars, Sun & Mercury) but after reading this, I was beginning to wonder if he was just another big Narcissist. I’m glad to hear you say Ivannia that your dad wasn’t!
        Segue, I just saw the book link above “Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing daughters of N. mothers …” and am wondering if having a mother like this ‘breeds’ you to fall for other narcissists … probably so. Medium once told me, “Grandma says that with your mother, it’s all about her!’ I burst out laughing and said, “No kidding!”

      • I’m with you, Ivannia. My brother and I both have Sun/Venus conjunctions and neither of us qualify as narcissistic, unless you count a brief period of time during adolescence. And I have Sun conjunct Neptune as well. So does my Scorpio hubby, and he’s not a narcissist either (thank God), although occasionally he can be a little arrogant.

        Sometimes I like attention, sometimes not. Either way, I know I’m not the most interesting person in the room and I’m definitely interested in (and care about) others. The thing about the Narcissists I’ve run across is that they make absolutely NO effort to even pretend to be interested in what anyone else has to say. Unless they’re in their charming mode, and even then their attention span is limited.

        A true Narcissist sees everyone as a potential sexual conquest and can be VERY flirtatious – everyone is hot for them, or so they think. Young, old, married, single, genetically related – it doesn’t matter if they’re on the prowl. I think I remember reading how Ryan O’Neal came on to Tatum at Farrah’s funeral. That’s pretty classic narcissistic behavior.

      • This is to the gal that described Sun conjunct Neptune in Late Scorpio as her dream boat guy. I am very curious to hear your description. One of the most (apparently) narcissistic persons I have ever met had Sun Conjunct Neptune in late Scorpio (but not with Venus as in your case). Extremely charming but also exuding an air of unquestioned “self-superiority” underneath, I found him to be the type of person who could “dish it out but couldn’t take it.” His projections often seemed ludicrous. It was hard to tell if his grandiose fantasies were meant in jest or taken totally seriously. He felt it his duty to dissect and criticize about 80% of all the people he came in contact with. Not overtly “holier than thou,” he was certainly more “awake than thou, more effective than thou, more precise than thou, more just about everything than thou,” and knew exactly what you needed to change about yourself. [Other aspects included Venus opposite Saturn, Pluto conjunct Uranus, Jupiter square the Sun-Neptune conjunction, and Mercury sextile Jupiter (Enthusiasm and talk talk talk talk, very "confidant" at selling himself, fairly educated but somewhat conventional in the Mercury-Jupiter manner.] The “confidence” seemed compensatory, perhaps due to some type of insecurity. (???) He seemed to be constantly trying to prove that he was “the man,” the authority, the life teacher, the insightful Napoleon.)

  19. I have Mercury (7° 2’35”), Venus (22°47’59”), Mars (19°48’31”) and Uranus (15°22’57”) in my 11th house in Scorpio.

    There’s enough time and distance from my first marriage to now admit that my husband was a narcissist and that I was far too dependent on him.

  20. Great article!!!

    Another term for narcissist is psychic vampires who drain the energy of those around them to shine brighter by comparison.

    Cheers
    Shelley

  21. Hi Donna,
    the people in my database who display overt narcissistic tendencies have all have the following signatures.
    Their cross of matter always includes the Leo /Aquarius polarity, mostly either Asc in Leo or Aqu but a few with MC/IC.
    The majority have their Asc/Dsc in either Leo or Aquarius BUT this alone isn’t enough – it is always combined with a very prominent Sun which invariably aspects their Asc, even a minor aspect, like a semi-square or semi sextile is enough.
    They all have their Sun aspecting their Asc either it is conjunct the Dcs or another person i know has a first house Sun with a semi-squ to their Asc.
    hope this is helpful

    • Very helpful, Niyati, thank you. Makes sense to me. Donna

  22. The narcissist I know is male with Leo rising and Mars 21 deg in Leo in 1st – and Cancer Sun 21 deg in 12th, Gemini Venus 21 deg – my Scorpio Moon 21 deg has been pulled right in – My Leo Sun is in 7th (projection) – his Saturn conjuncts my Mars in Cancer, his Pluto conjuncts my MC – It’s important to acknowledge the stuff in your own chart that hooks you in with these people – I have finally moved on after 7 years

    • “It’s important to acknowledge the stuff in your own chart that hooks you in with these people.” Excellent point, M. Donna

  23. Surprisingly, I’ve found that people with exact conjunctions (within 2 degrees or so) between sun and neptune are highly narcissistic – not what you would think when you contmplate neptune and sun symbolism or read descriptions of this aspect. They often have no consideration for other people’s time or boundaries, have distorted views of other in spite of their empathetic neptunian traits and are highly self deceptive. They see themselves as sacrificed at times but in truth they sacrifice others in ways they are unaware of. They are often quite self deluded in spite of very fine high ideals and sensitivities. Image matters to them, even if they say it doesn’t. They project their own faults onto others and have difficulties with boundaries (usually those of others). Deceptively polite and charming at first they can sometimes even be cunning.

    • I would expect it from that aspect, as an expression of their lack of boundaries between self and other. Donna

      • I have a friend who has Sun conjunct Neptune in Libra in the 7th house and she is always promoting other people and their causes if its a cause she also believes in. Shes very sweet most of the time.


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