Posted by: Donna Cunningham | April 16, 2010

Neptune in the 2nd—Money, Boundaries, & Codependency

©2010 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

 Neptune has been the topic on Skywriter this past couple of weeks, and we’ve looked at boundary issues and codependency in great depth. What I’m being impelled to take up now is the topic of money and the 2nd house, and I already have a series of several posts in the works. At first look, the two topics couldn’t be further apart, but in fact they’re deeply connected. Nothing enmeshes two people into a codependent tie more than financial dependency, and nothing makes that tie more conflict-filled, painful, ensnaring, and ultimately demeaning for both. 

Codependency and Neptune in the 2nd

Wherever Neptune or Pisces are in the birth chart, there’s a strong tendency for boundary problems, since Neptune is where we merge with All That Is. Deeply spiritual at best, on the more mundane level, this blurring of boundaries can easily create problems such as codependency and the chronic tendency to play either the rescuer or the rescued where money is concerned. In the 2nd house, Neptune or Pisces planets can blur financial boundaries, with fairly sticky results. It can come up almost as strongly for people like myself who have the ruler of the 2nd house in the 12th aspected by Neptune.

The house Neptune rules shows which significant others are involved in the financial muddles. Suppose that someone has Neptune in the 2nd house, with Pisces on the 5th, suggesting financial codependency with children or lovers.

With Neptune in Libra, for instance, love is valued far more than money—and so it should be! However, with this particular house placement, Neptunians with low self-esteem may equate the two and be convinced that children, lovers, or friends won’t love them unless they are showered with gifts.

They may repeatedly bail children or romantic partners out of financial trouble, thinking doing so shows their love, when it is more often a kind of enabling. Unfortunately, the codependency this creates over time is not love, as it undermines the receiver’s will to be self-sufficient. With Neptune in the 2nd but in Scorpio instead of Libra, financial dependency and control issues can be meshed in very murky ways.

Neptune, Rescuing and Survivor Guilt

Something that has only occurred to me as I geared up for this series is how much of a role survivor guilt can play in the motivation of a rescuer. They give and give in a futile effort to relieve their tormenting guilt about doing better than the people they rescue. You can often trace the source of that guilt to the placement of Neptune in the chart.

For myself, with Neptune in the 3rd, the guilt centers on my single mom sister and her children and about how very difficult her life has been. As the oldest child in a family that had gone down hill badly by the time she was born, I’ve had many advantages that she did not, including a great education through scholarships. Despite much healing work, I am often haunted by guilt that she missed out on those advantages. She’s my primary guiltor in life, and over the years, I’ve helped out financially whenever I could.

There are a few flower essences that can help relieve these patterns. Most of them are by Bach/Healing Herbs and can be found in stores that sell health food and New Age books. The very first such remedy I ever took was Pine, a remedy for guilt. What sold me on it was that within a couple of weeks, I was able to say no comfortably to a request from my sister for money to fund a particularly ill-advised project.

Another helpful remedy for rescuers is Centaury, for those who are easily taken advantage of, and a third is Red Chestnut, for those who fret and worry about people who don’t worry enough about themselves. More information about these remedies and how to use them will be linked below.

 The Underpaid Helper—Astrologers , Healers, and their Fees

Many astrologers, healers and others in the service fields who have Neptune in the 2nd find it hard to charge appropriately, so they live in chronic financial chaos or peril. By undercharging or letting clients owe large sums, they persuade themselves that they are spiritually evolved. Often these seemingly saintly acts are efforts to bolster low self-esteem. They may also have been heavily programmed by religious teachings about money as the root of all evil.

But, yes, their difficulties are also bound into codependent relationships with their clients.  At the end of this article, you find a link to a download about astrologers, where this codependency stems from, and what the implications are for practice.

As a result of undercharging or of discomfort in marketing themselves, some helpers wind up needing rescuing themselves when they can’t meet expenses. When self-esteem improves and some of the misconceptions are cleared away, they’re able to charge what they are worth, and the financial difficulties begin to shift.

 The Better Side of Neptune in the 2nd

Neptune in the 2nd has some wonderful attributes as well. In a refreshing departure from the materialism of our age, some people with this placement share a solidly spiritual value system, seeing the holiness in others as their primary worth rather than their possessions. It is important to keep the material and spiritual realms in balance—a task we all struggle with, but one that is consistently in the face of the person with Neptune or Pisces in either of the money houses, the 2nd or 8th.

Not a bad segue into my next topic, the 2nd house, was it?  Earning money hasn’t always been my strong suit, so I expect to gain many new insights myself as we explore it.   But first, readers, if you can see how boundary issues, codependency and money have been connected in your own lives and how that’s reflected in your chart, do share what you can in the comment section.

Related articles and information on Skywriter: Donna Cunningham Skywriter Mars

Articles in the Astrology and Finances series:

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Responses

  1. The sentence in the first paragraph, “Nothing enmeshes two people into a codependent tie more than financial dependency, and nothing makes that tie more conflict-filled, painful, ensnaring, and ultimately demeaning for both,”
    epitomizes my last realtionship so clearly. In our composite chart we had a tight Neptune/ Saturn in the 2nd house, a Pisces Sun and Pisces on 7th. We are now working thru the process of becoming friends with no financial entanlglements as we do still love each other, just can’t be partners because of this specific issue.
    We also got together during a huge Neptune transit for both of us and my Progressed Sun opp Neptune. I have also had 10 years of big Neptune transits to my 5 Aquarian planets, now sitting on my Sun. I also scored 40 on the Neptune tool.
    I had some awareness around my boundary issues but my finacial co-dependecy triggered a lot of fear issues even though I was the rescuer!
    I am now working thru this muddle of what this was all about. It was painful for me when the relationship ended but I am now feeling much better and recognizing how unhealthy we had become together.
    Thanks, Donna, for this article, it sheds so much light on the last 10 years of a very significant relationship in my life.
    Sibyl Star

    • Glad if it helped, Sybil. So hard to establish any boundaries in a relationship when survival is at stake. It’s very undermining. Pluto is usually involved as well. Donna

  2. Neptune is in my 2nd house w/ Pisces on the 5th house. I never had many issues with financial codependency throughout the majority of my life. In fact I was always explicitly clear when it came to money and loved ones. However, something happened in a long-term relationship I had which completely depleted me physically and spiritually. I was barely an adult taking care of a grown man financially, and there was no light at the end of the tunnel. The relationship was a long climax to some years of dramatic trauma, it was the lowest point of my life. Through that experience I realized how many emotionally codependent relationships I had been in in the past, and how dangerous this sort of symbiosis was.

    Interestingly most people assume I have great boundaries because I come off quite assertive and forceful, but really its all mush deep inside. So theres this misperception many have of my personal relationships where my partner comes off as the perpetual victim, when in actuality it is much more complex, and I tend to be the one who gets wounded much deeper. My boundary setting has become much more refined, but its still something I am working on. I have a tendency to go to the other extreme, now its more about not being to walled in.

    Not sure how much these are a factor, but my Neptune is also sextile to my Sun, Saturn, and Pluto. I’m guessing Neptune in the 2nd is probably more of the culprit. Thanks for another wonderful article Donna.

    • This is all such painful stuff, isn’t itl We so desperately seek for love, and thus can be prey to those who just want to use us. Donna

      • I was touched by your comment about being the oldest child in a family that was already going downhill…. I understand. My role in the family was to win awards and status….

      • Boy, can I relate, Lee. There was a book once in the heyday of Adult Child of Alcoholic books that explained a lot. It was Perfect Daughter, and was addressed to the daughters of alcoholic fathers. It’s probably available used somewhere, like Amazon.com. Donna

  3. Wow!!! As usual;-) this really helped to shed some light on some of my self-worth/financial issues!!! I have Neptune in my 8th and Pisces on the 11th. When I read that one of the 8th’s descriptors is “joint resources” and the 11th includes how we relate to groups, I immediately saw several pieces of the puzzle come together.

    I’ve always had problems charging for my design and photography services because I just love doing them so much….I do it anyway, even when I’m not getting paid, so that line became very blurred. It’s not like when you have to do something you don’t like to do, (such as cleaning the house for me;-)….Of course I would expect to be paid for that, as I don’t WANt to do it. Having low self-esteem and self-worth in general hasn’t helped either.

    Ultimately, I have to realize and understand that the services I provide for others have immense value beyond that I just enjoy doing them. I was also raised fairly strict/catholic and have had that belief of money being equal to evil brainwashed into me ever since I can remember, so that’s a really tough obstacle to overcome as well.

    Thanks for showing how this behavior related to being Neptunian Donna!!! I really feel like I’m starting to be able to see the bigger picture, more objectively…..I just love this whole series on Neptune;-)

    • I can relate to that, loving what you do so much that it’s almost not about the money–yet needing to be paid in order to survive.

      Some of this about religion goes back to past lives, e.g. if you were ever a nun or priest and took those vows of poverty, maybe several times in related incarnations. There are ways to formally revoke all such vows. One tool is to write the same statement 70 times a day for 7 days, then burning or otherwise destroying the paper. Here, something like “I revoke all vows I have ever taken, including vows of poverty.” Donna

  4. I have Neptune in Scorpio in the 2nd, with neptune ruling my 6th house and Pluto in my 12th sextiling Neptune-
    My experience with this placement has been that I have more been in the “rescuee” role, dependent on family to help me out when I’ve hit rough financial patches (which have not been significant, thankfully), however during my current Neptune square Neptune transit I’m realizing how this keeps me in a dependent almost child-like position and am trying to proactively make changes to alter this dynamic

    On the upside, though I’ve always struggled in manifesting cold, hard cash in my life, I seem to be able to bring in the most wonderful experiences, possessions, etc. that sort of magically present themselves-as the time I found a pair of Prada boots in a give away box on the street.

    Finally-working to feel “deserving” of the fees I charge and to value my own skills (with which Neptune in the house of gifts and talents are hard for me to even explain to myself)

    Will be curious to see where I’m at with all these Neptunian issues once the square moves off-just survived the first pass….

    • Fern, direct manifestation of what we need or want without the need for cash is also of great benefit. When I am clear and unambivalent about what I need, the manifestation can come about with almost no wait.

      For example, I decided one morning that I really needed another bookcase, but it had to be white wood like everything else in my bedroom, and it had to be small enough to fit in a particular space.

      Half an hour later, I was struck with the urge to go outside, almost impelled, and there was my neighbor sitting just a few feet away. I sat down to chat, and there behind her was the exact bookcase I needed, a charming older one that took up only as much space as there was. I asked her what she was doing with it, and she said she was waiting for her husband to go carry it out to the trash before the trash man came. It was mine, and he even carried it into the house for me.

      I call that my manifestation mojo. (There’s an article here on this site about that: Mars-Pluto Aspects? Use your Manifestation Mojo!) One mantra that helps is, “God provides ALL my needs for the price I can afford.” Donna

  5. Hi all,

    Donna, I didn’t know you were a fellow 3rd house Neptune – BELIEVE me when I say you’re experience of this placement paralells that of my own natal Neptune in the 3rd! I also have the Moon in the 3rd (conjunct) to further muddy the waters, however. Guilt, siblings, confused parental roles – ugh, where do I stop? I would love to see you do an article sometime in the future about Neptune in the 3rd – I would certainly have a lot to contribute to THAT discussion!

    I actually started reading this article because I have another sibling who has Neptune in the 2nd natally and have watched over the years how it functions in his life. Here’s what’s been going on:

    He constantly works his behind off, but can’t seem to get ahead. He’s really not very good with money – he’s self-employed and constantly underbids his jobs because he would “rather be busy than not working at all”

    As you’ve guessed, he has a poor sense of self-worth that is at the root of this. That’s why he underbids himself despite the fact that he is a total perfectionist and does high-quality work that he takes a lot of pride in.

    Wants to pursue playing poker full time because he thinks it will make him a lot of money. Jupiter squares Neptune and he’s one of those terminally positive types that believes if you run around thinking magical thoughts and are positive all the time, YOU CAN MANIFEST ANYTHING… I sincerely hope he’s right and I’m wrong, but my Magic 8-Ball (as well as my common sense) is saying “Outlook not so good”…

    Recently he was sued by an employee who hurt himself on the jobsite. This individual opted not to use the safety equipment that was readily available and less than 5 feet away from him. My brother felt bad, paid for this employee’s medical expenses out of his own pocket in addition to continuing to pay this guy his normal weekly wage while he was recovering, and yet STILL got sued even though he tried to do all the “right” things.

    However, Neptune isn’t all bad. His complete honesty with the courts about this matter has been immensely helpful to him. They’ve been helpful and leinient, and as a result he will actually wind up paying LESS than if his employee hadn’t sued and he had just continued instead to pay him his full weekly salary! How’s THAT for the power of the universe to provide?

    There is a certain degree of spiritual protection that seems to be conferred when you deal with this planet clearly and with absolute honesty…..even if it is found in one of those dense, material houses where it is traditionally seen as dissolving matter……

    • Interesting parallells, Alethea. The article you ask for is already on this site: “Things You May Not Know about the 3rd and 12th Houses.” Look for it under the category Houses. It talks about Jack Nicholson’s 3rd house Moon–won’t spoil the story. Donna

  6. Great article again Donna.
    I too have Neptune in Scorpio in the 2nd. All I can say is, “Why can’t I earn money” or rather, “Nah, I don’t deserve to earn money.” But, I seem to attract all I ever need. When I need it. It is just SO frustrating not to receive cash or even want to in a systematic way.
    BTW Pisces rules my 6th house. It seems as if I make money best through healing. I am an artist/teacher by trade. When I have sold my art it never stays long on the walls. Several people have told me how “healed” they feel or how “uplifted they feel when observing my paintings. I guess that’s another upside to this entire Neptune issue.

    Thanks!
    Adela

  7. Maybe this is off-topic in this thread… But could Neptune in the 2nd house manifest as a stunning lack of awareness of one’s body? That’s how I’d characterize a loved one’s placement of Neptune in the 2nd. He doesn’t have any money issues, nor notable problems with co-dependency, but he sure is unaware of his body.

    And, he is VERY non-materialistic. His home is beautiful and sparse, not a lot of stuff. Hi idealism about his values, and non-attachment to things. He doesn’t grieve for stuff he’s lost or damaged…

    • Sea, thanks for sharing how that position has worked. I wouldn’t see Neptune in the 2nd as lack of body awareness. That would more likely be from another placement, maybe something in the 1st or 12th or a different Neptune aspect. The nonattachment to material things, definitely Neputne in the 2nd. Donna

  8. In a dramatic divorce, I also surrendered my work since we were partners in a home-based business. Here are some recent insights offered by my astrology teacher as part of a lesson on modalities (quoted):

    ‘Pisces on your 8th house cusp may be a problem, not so much because it is mutable, as because it is in a water sign. But the combination of mutability and water means that as you share joint resources, they can tend to become absorbed by your partner – which is what happened [in your previous marriage].

    ‘Having a mutable earth sign on your 2nd house cusp seems to imply in your case that money is a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. With Mercury in your 12th house, the potential exists for your money to disappear into a dream. That is OK, as long as the dream has some root in reality and you remain invested in the dream. When it turns out to have been just a dream, the money is simply gone the morning after.’

    And that is what happened. I also have my North node in 2nd so it’s likely an important lesson on the path to self-worth. I’ve always happily given my skills and my money away to my partners. Time to take a different tack!

  9. a-I’ve had that same experience of receiving just what I need, when I need it-but again the cash thing is lacking…
    However, I have tracked other 2nd house neptune’s and found that not all of us are always cash deficient-though the key seems to be working in some Neptune related field-film, healing work, art, etc.
    So I continue to hold out hope that I can generate good income if I persist in my field and watch the boundaries….

  10. Hi Donna – I love these Neptune posts. I think my Neptune in the 2nd has played out in a variety of ways, from the mundane to the spiritual. Neptune in Scorpio has gifted me with an awareness of what others value, as well as the hidden motives attached to those values, including mine. You probably already know all this by now, but I have Sun/Neptune/Mercury/Jupiter conjunct, with Neptune ruling the 7th, Mercury ruling my Ascendant and MC, Jupiter ruling the 4th, and the Sun ruling the 12th; Neptune also squares my Moon in the 5th, sextiles my Pluto in the 12th, and semisquares my Saturn in the 4th.

    I remember when I was around 9 or 10 years old, coming home from a weekend trip with my dad and finding that my mother had surprised me by giving me my own bedroom – freshly painted and fully decorated – complete with entirely new furniture, art, floral bedding, and accessories, all tastefully done in shades of soft creams, yellows, and greens. The large dresser and matching nightstand were antique white with brass handles and painted gold flowers, and the walls were a sunny, warm sunset color. I quickly realized there was not a single trace of me in that room and that the little girl it was designed for surely was not me. I HATED IT.

    I knew my mother had meant well, just as I knew it was her way of expressing love for me (she gave things, and did things), so I never let on how I truly felt and tried as best I could to be grateful. My mother grew up very poor, and I knew this was her dream room, one she’d basically decorated for herself.

    The message I took from those experiences was that what I wanted didn’t matter and that the needs/values/feelings of others took precedence. In the process, I enslaved myself to others and became dependent upon them since I failed to fully develop my own sense of self-worth and personal identity. Learning to individuate myself and to value who I am (apart from what’s expected of me) has been an ongoing process and challenge. And establishing my own set of spiritual values and acting with integrity has become more important than being popular or well-liked.

    One of the blessings of having Neptune in the 2nd is that it has enabled me to make certain necessary financial (and material) sacrifices without becoming bitter or resentful, and with Jupiter conjunct, money seems to come in just when I need it most. But early on, I wasted a lot of resources giving to people (family, lovers, friends, co-workers, employers) who neither appreciated nor needed my gifts. Although I’m still generous and idealistic (I don’t believe anyone should have to earn certain basic human rights), I no longer attract users and have become far more discriminating. Just recently, when a younger relative hinted that he needed money to pay off a tax debt, I declined to offer help since I knew he had the means to handle the situation using his own resources. It was obvious he chose to ignore practical advice regarding his finances, and I felt I’d be doing him a disservice to spare him the lesson.

    • Thanks for sharing about the many ways a 2nd house Neptune plays out, LB–and everyone else. To me, the best way to learn more about any facet of astrology has always been to listen to peoople’s stories about it. Which was why astrology sessions were always a dialogue with the client rather than a monolgue by me. I think we’re all learning a goodly amount of real-world astrology from people’s comments on this site. Donna

      • Thanks Donna. I always enjoy reading other people’s stories. Sometimes the similarities are amazing and it’s helped me to realize I’m not alone. Many of us walk through life feeling insignificant; most of the people who know us barely scratch the surface and vice versa; that’s why I share. While it’s partly therapeutic, I also hope others out there, especially those learning astrology, will benefit. It’s nice to know you were the kind of astrologer who listened.

  11. My husband has Neptune in the 2nd, with Pisces on the cusp of his 8th house. He has a stellium in Cancer. If someone asks for help, he will never decline! As much as I love his generosity, it would have been nice if he had anticipated preparing for retirement at some point in his life since we are both up there in years (but he said he always knew he could rely on his mom and sister in case of trouble.) His sister also has Neptune in the 2nd house opposite her sun in Aries in the 8th. As I see it, she is very good as spending her husbands’ money (both of them).

  12. What if Pisces is intercepted? How would you interpret Neptune then?

    • Hi, Toni, An intercepted Pisces still works for the house it’s in, it’s just even more confusing! Sort of an underlying dynamic that’s harder to see and tease out what’s causing what, but no less powerful. For Neptune/Pisces, I often use the image of a sugar cube dissolved in a cup of tea. You can’t see the sugar any more, but it has definitely changed the tea. Donna

  13. There just aren’t words to express how this article speaks to me. I am co-dependant of my 17 year old son. Pisces rules his 4th house and Neptune is in his 2ne house. I totally feel that he is using the home/family he currently has for everything he can get from it. We’ve been to hell (I won’t say and back) and a place better than hell trying to deal with it. For me, Pisces rules my 10th house and Neptune is i n my 5th house.

    I’m making progress, but I’m still pissed! Thanks for helping me to point this out in our charts.

    • Stacey, does your son have Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn? That generation is already beginning to enter the work force–or NOT entering it, is more like it for many of them. They were raised in the era of false expansion under Pluto in Sag while greed drove so many of us into going deeply into credit card debt for luxuries.

      Many of these young people were overindulged, with no real expectations placed on them of earning their way and no realistic understanding of money. As a result they are ill-prepared for earning a living. I hear more and more stories like yours. Donna

      • Donna, It’s simply ignorant to generalise a whole group of people based on two planets and the sing+house of placement. Is it not true that there are a dozen other celestial bodies of major significance, 11 more houses, 11 more signs, and numerous asteroids, all forming together an intricate and individualistic map to each person’s personality and experience, or was everything I have read about astrology simply WRONG? This is such an obnoxious thing to say.

      • I would always recommend analysing an individual’s strong points, because the whole problem of the generation raising those you so easily generalise was being judgemental… I understand you want to promote your article by stressing on how relevant it is, but surely you declare a few million people out there inadequate based on e.g. 2.5% of their birth chart, do you? Thank you very much for your article, but don’t misguide people into hating their children because of an isolated interpretation of what it might mean.

  14. Hi Donna, you are right on the money as usual ( a little 2nd house joke!). I have Neptune in the 2nd tightly conjunct Jupiter in Scorpio and the rulers of all 3 career houses are in the 12th. Most of my life I have strugged financially and with Pisces on the 7th I often became dependent on partners to provide what I couldn’t afford (including all the murky power play that this often involves – Venus conjunct Pluto in the 12th too).

    I also had the issue of not charging enough for the work I do but I also have an optimistic belief that the Universe will provide (might be that Neptune/Jupiter conjunction) and of course the Universe does provide and often just in the nick of time.

    In the last few years things have improved for me financially and I think this is because I started a daily meditation practice and also I have asked to be shown what my work is in the world. As a result I have been offered wonderful work in the healing and also artistic fields without me looking for it at all. I think I have finally discovered the gift of my 2nd House Neptune! Of course, it co-operates beautifully with my 5 planet stellium in Virgo that just wants to be helpful and of service. Thanks again Donna for your wonderful insights.
    Karen

    • Karen, thanks for sharing how it’s worked for you–you’ve been through almost the full spectrum of a 2nd house Neptune and seem to have worked through many of the quanderies.

      One thing you might try adding to your meditation is to surround your finances with a radiant emerald green light. Imagine it as intensely as you possibly can. Green light is for abundance and also for creativity. The other thing I do often is to affirm, “God provides all my needs.” Donna

  15. Yes Donna my son does have the Uranus-Neptune conjunction in Capricorn. You are right – he is ill prepared for adult life. We should have placed more expectations on him when he was younger. The Uranus-Saturn opposition right on his mid-heaven in November 2009 hit him (and us) especially hard. We have all learned an important lesson about responsibility and boundaries, but he is still trying to push back against Saturn’s lesson.

    • Correction – Uran us-Saturn opposition in November 2008.

    • Tough and frustrating situation, Stacey. “Push back against Saturn’s lessons.” I’d say that’s a definition for Uranus/Saturn aspects or for Uranus in Capricorn, even without the presence of Neptune in the mix. You are far from alone in your plight–that combination in Capricorn is a whole subgeneration of young people, every one of them born on the planet in those years having it…kind of an after-effect of where we were collectively at that time. Donna

  16. Donna,
    Just want to thank you for always bringing up such timely topics and my Virgo loves the tips and tools you offer (such as surrounding your finances with green light).

    I absolutely agree with you, that my best astrological learning has come from direct life experience with my own chart and those of my family, friends and clients.
    thanks again!
    Fern

  17. WOW!!! For a while there, I thought you were talking directly to me! SO SPOT ON! Yikes…

    Neptune conj. Sun in the 2nd here. Pisces on the 8th. Have illusions about money? check. Rely on the dream that the day I win the lottery, I’ll have what i need? check. Give my money away to homeless people? check. Tossed a rich, abusive husband over for the poor, kind, gentle love of my life? check, check, check.

    I can go on and on. If you write a book about this, I think I’ll buy about 50. One for me, and 40 for all the people in my life whom I have touched with this aspect!

    And the part about the astrologer not charging enough? I don’t charge ANYTHING…bad, bad, bad. I do it because I think I’m “helping.” I just got an e-mail from a real “user” that I “helped” many times. She’s wealthy beyond words. She wants ANOTHER reading. Yeah, okay.

    Mercury rules the cusp of my second where the Sun Neptune conjunction occurs. I just finished writing for a magazine for one year (third house relates to communications). FOR FREE. Yup, that’s right folks, I never got a dime! Blah!

    So, what to do, what to do? I’ve decided to use the sextile to my 12th house Saturn conj. Pluto. Saturn conjunct Pluto are the little men in the white coats that come and haul your Sun conj. Neptune posterior away after you wind up homeless after giving all your money away to anyone who gives you a sob story.

    The sextile of Saturn conj. Pluto in Leo in the 12th forced me to take a good, hard look within (Pluto and the 12th), take stock and control (Saturn), and consider myself (Leo) when I wind up doing more harm than good by not planning for my own future.

    I might also mention that with Sun and Neptune conjunct in Libra, I MUST work in art in some fashion. I also have Taurus on the MC. If I don’t, then I spiritually and emotionally die.

    If struggled with learning astrology for so many years. But, now it seems the “light bulb” is coming on, and I feel I can use astrology as a tool to help me find answers.

    One important thing I am learning is to look for the “outlet.” In my case it is the sextile to the 12th house planets.

    Sara’s comment above is also VERY accurate when it comes to seeing money.

    I could go on forever on this one….

    • Quite the illustrative picture of Neptune in the 2nd, Pat. At least you’re seeing it clearly. Somewhere in the cmment section to that article or the one on Neptune in the career houses, I wrote about where past life vows of poverty fit into the picture and gave a technique for releasing yourself from those vows. Donna

  18. I have been waiting for this blog post! Finances on my mind a lot lately. I have Neptune in the 2nd house (Scorpio), which is inconjunct with Saturn in the 7th house (Aries). This aspect is part of two Yods in my chart–both Yods share this aspect. So I’d say it’s pretty significant! And it has felt very significant in my life.

    Money and relationships have manifested as strings-attached connections with significant people in my life. At times I felt I had handed my control over to another in exchange for a relationship that promised some nice perk$ and the illusion of security and stability.

    In hindsight, it’s obvious to me now what has happened, but in the moment, all was murky (Neptune) and I was in the dark about many things, financial and otherwise in those relationships.

    Thanks Donna!

    • Yes, it is a murky position in the second, and perhaps all the more so in Scorpio, as Pluto becomes part of it too. Enmeshment that saps one’s self-esteem and leeches away control over one’s life. Donna

  19. Hi Donna,

    Neptune in the 2nd in Sagittarius has bemused me a lot and not something that made much sense to me. I’ve always been fiercely independant and careful with my money, but sure it’s not the highest priority in my life. I suspect this could be the trine to my strong Mars position, with a sextile to Pluto. Neptune also sits in opposition to my Sun and Venus. Venus I can understand but Sun? It has been suggested that I have a Neptune shadow and the opposition was out of balance…but transitting Neptune is now on my IC so there you go!! Lots of navel gazing going on…

    And Pisces is empty and intercepted in the 4th. I have a massive amount of guilt accepting money off my family. On the rare occasions that I have, I feel that I’m being manipulative cos I know they won’t want me to pay them back, to the extent that I borrow money from my sister rather than my parents cos she will accept it back. Does this sound likely for intercepted Pisces and 2nd house?

    I do wonder if the future will hold a Neptunian income for me. But I know I wouldn’t like accepting money for something that I love doing.

    • Serious worthiness issues, Tizer. Why should we not be paid for doing what we love–that is healthy! It’s almost as though you feel guilty when you experience pleasure. We are meant to love our work, and I believe that is why we are created with gifts and talents.

      Can I suggest, as something that might clear that away, some work on thought forms and on vows of poverty taken in past lives where you might have been a nun or priest. All about Neptune! Use the search engine for this site and put in “thought forms” first and then later do “revoke all vows.” Also read about Pine, the Bach flower essence for what I call “guilt on the hoof.” Donna

      • I don’t think I’m that bad! I’m well aware that money equals fun. But having Neptune in the 2nd means that I’m willing to give up my well paid job to go in search for the ‘love for my work’, as you’ve said you did. I don’t want to struggle for money, but I hope a temporary glitch will be worth it. However, Neptune’s influence would be very different if it wasn’t associated with my strong Mars energy: drive balances worthiness?

      • Yes, a strong Mars can do much to counteract Neptune, but so can a strong Saturn. I’m rather Neptunian myself when it comes to material things–ruler of the 2nd in the 12th, quintile Neptune–and so, no, I’m not a materialist. I’m just saying we don’t have to feel guilty about being paid well for the things we love to do. Donna

  20. This page right here with all the resources is awesome ! Too bad I’m a bit limited with time. Thank you Donna. I need to heal this fog or guilt.

    I need people to be responsible for themselves

    Sending you all my spiritual support

    Cheers,
    RDC

  21. Neptune is on my 2nd house cusp. I love a lot nature. Money? That’s a so trivial thing! I live very simple…

  22. Hi Donna,

    I feel as if you speak what I think, and so very verbosely correct. :-)
    I have sag sun (4th), Virgo rising, Pluto in 1st house, Uranus in 2nd, Mars in 8th and saturn in 10th house… I feel you must have some of these.. oh most imp, I have exact conjunction of Mercury with Neptune in Sag in house III.

    Coming to the TOPIC: ‘NEPTUNE in House II’

    My ex husband had it, Neptune in II in Scorpio, with Pluto tightly conjunct Sun in 12th house.

    He was best mis-manager I have encountered, and he Thought he is MOST CUNNING and VISIONARY business man.. there is TRUTH to both. though it may look contradictory. he could sell deep freezers to Eskimos, but He was totally Crap at charging and retaining his cash.

    He spent of homeless and relatives who praised him and asked for help… but he had NO MONEY FOR HIS WIFE and KIDS. totally MISPLACED SENSE OF MONITORY OBLIGATION.

    I Had Libra on cusp of House-II, and URANUS in it.. Uranus is trine by saturn and MC, sextiled by sun and moon, opposed by mars…. despite all the career changes I did, I still managed to earn enough to sustain myself and my kids and Him too.

    thanks to Mars in VIII, I received home and money from inheritance and I am never pennyless, even when I am out of job.

    I dont know if you ever read this posting, but let me say never-the-less, Mars in VIII does NOT get money after quarrel or dispute, NO… it gets Inheritance After PAIN.. deep pain.. there is NO Reward without PAIN, for it.

    without any disrespect,
    NEPTUNE in II, is a parasite, they bleed to death those who love them and help them,, and they Only ever spend it on those who are fair-weather friends acting needy and poor. WOrst choice for bonds like Marriage where finances are shared.

    THE SOLUTION:: :-), After all that I thought and thought over my own life, years with him.
    *- GET a MANAGER
    *- GET a Nupital Agreement, and Put a FUND where without the Neptune-II’s knowledge a percentage of his/her earning goes too.
    *- that FUND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES be touched or available to the Neptune-II.

    he/she probably should NEVER get to know the exact money they have, they just THINK and Work and be allowed to draw a certain amount at one time, Period.
    :-D .. it sounds SILLY, trust me it is NOT. :)

    • Thanks for sharing that story–so many of the details are textbook Neptune in the financial houses, and you’ve learned the hard way how to be self-protective. Donna

  23. oh one more thing … Neptune in II is kinda LAZY, very Lazy and Late, they somehow MISS the right timing. They are Cunning and selfish, but they would NEVER realize it, for in their minds they are being Spiritual and Self-e-facing.
    …. I wonder how they relate with it.

    now that I am no more married to him, I can empathize with him,, somehow.
    PS: he still owes me a large amount of money, and he put me through hell in last few years, yet,,,, whenever he needs money, he has the audacity to call me and ask for it.

    and PROMISES:: oh those long long promises, which I am sure they totally want to keep, just never get around to it.

    Quick RICH schemes, without much Efforts or hard work.. Anyone else who got rich, they think: he/she Got a Fluke… for themselves, it is a Blind SPOT.

    …. I dont mean any disrespect to anyone. truly.

    Maybe My ex was a worst case, and a rarity for he has Unaspected-Saturn. in 8th house….
    … he still gets the most amazing oppertunities (jupiter conjunct Asc in 1st House) and they go wasted.. but Good for him, he always finds people like me, who help him, so he is never penniless or homeless. Lucky Chap, well

    sorry it got long. :-(

  24. I’ve Su, Np, Ve and Me in 2nd (sidereal) Libra. I’ve always had enough to get by so far – via Landscaping with a co. – and that’s good enough (after reading either history or the news). Who knows about the future and I’m weary of worrying about it. So I think Np will help me find the easiest self deliverance drug/method for if and when the “survival tickets” run out as I am not a go getter in money making matters.

    Saturn from 5th/Capricorn aspects (jyotish aspect) 2nd and this may account for nothing much coming from my 2nd but vanity and esteem issues. But I do love my electric guitar… But Every single financial “investment” I Ever made fell through. Seems statistically impossible.

    Pensions, very funny. If one worker is entitled, all should be. Not the case.

    Dependency. I know many folks in their mid 20’s+ who live at home. There’s the handouts of course, right up to corporate welfare…
    I’ve been a loner all my adult life. My one dependency has been on unemployment benefits which I paid into. No parties, holidays, girlfriend, friend, social networks, blah. I am (within reason) my own shrink, doc, pastor, friend, lover, band member, blah…

    None of this matters tho. It’s like the combat vet on a new battle field (not me). You can be a courageous hero one day and totally flip the next. Make the “right” choice today and step on a mine the next day because of it etc.

    If you’re older, still intact and off the street you need to thank fate every day. When and if I see our charts truly reflecting biography I’ll then thank, or not, the planets. I think it’s too limiting to pin everything on a handful of planets and signs. But it does fit nicely sometimes.

    Also consider supposed reincarnation. Ok, it’s surely safe to assume most folks like music and have picked up an instrument or two throughout their incarnations. Music is one example of a plethora of avenues…
    ….yet, and here’s the point you never see anyone address, what does reincarnated billy then do? Take music lessons or what have you; again. This is for the majority of course and not those little lucks who play Beethoven at six. And That may be what they call bleed through…which may or may not have anything to do with their “past” incarnations. Some folks simply tune into the higher realms better – but this can have it’s own consequences.
    Who knows, Beethoven’s “last” incarnation could have been as an autistic brat from Newark who died early from eating lead paint chips…..
    Further, “he” could “now” be a kid in Newark taking piano lessons.

    Verstehen Sie? It’s a phucking treadmill to nowhere. Play the Game and you’re stuck in it. So this isn’t good for folks with Libran strengths.

  25. How does the Neptune in 2nd translate as Neptune transiting intercepted 2nd? I have Cap on cusp of 2nd, but Aquarius buried in 2nd, so Neptune is about to leave and transit my 3rd house, ruled by Pisces. Natally Nep in Libra in Libra 10th conjunct Saturn in Scorpio. Would above apply to the transit as well? Very unattached to material, faith in universe, always provided for, easy manifestation although no stable finances or income.

    In the past seventeen years I obtained a BA and MSW and changed careers twice. No career or job stability but benefit from partners stable finances.

    • Transiting Neptune is similar to Neptune in the 2nd natally, yes. The interception doesn’t lessen its effects, in fact what an intercepted sign does by transit is to prolong the effect of the transiting planet because it means that the house is more than 30 degrees wide. There IS an article on Neptune transits to the 2nd/8th on that list. Donna

  26. Frustrated. Can you clarify the ramifications of this combination for me? Neptune in Scorpio in my natal 2nd house. Opposing is my Venus in Taurus in the 8th house.
    I am happy in my work and feel complete in all aspects of my life but I cannot seem to rectify the money issue. I feel I am worthy as never before in my life, so I am confused as to how to turn this aspect around.
    You insights would be greatly appreciated.
    Cristiaana

  27. I am a 3rd house Neptunian (in Sag) with older twin sisters with Scorpio Neptune in 2nd & Pluto, Uranus & Mars in Virgo in 12th. They are nearing 50 and still so dependent on my parents, I worry what will happen to them. One married a wealthy man who has Sun conj Jupiter actually (but that has come with a some serious obligation karma – her life is not her own) and the other is single with absolutely NO assets. She tries so hard but as soon as she has money, she can’t help but spend (gifts, luxury items, vacations, rent beyond her means) I am the youngest & was out of the house very early and always been a good earner. (I have a big 1st house stellium in Libra, Libra on cusp of 2nd with Moon & Venus conjunct in 2nd, Jupiter in 5th, Mars in 8th, Saturn in 10th.) At points it has caused tension – the co-dependency is so hard to understand why they “just can’t get it together” – but they are quite bright, very gentle and kind, hard workers & devoted family.
    One has always been a little crafty and competitive & often maneuvered behind us other girls’ backs for more resources, secret loans, gifts, heirlooms, etc. It used to irritate me but it doesn’t seem to help her anyway and usually ends up becoming a burden she complains about. Sigh. The sense of entitlement is alarming! Somehow its always somebody’s else’s fault. She was quite competitive when we were younger and used to copy me and buy duplicates of whatever I had – furniture & she definitely would always want the better car. She also loves to buy lottery tickets, enter raffles & all kinds of contests.
    I know both my parents worry greatly about what will happen to them. I try hard to maintain a good relationship but have always chosen to live some distance away. The whole dynamic is frustrating and sad to me.
    And yes, I actually agree that no matter what help I offered, my sister would eagerly take it – she does not feel bad about it. I really do worry that whatever she inherits, she will conspire for “more” and then blow it unless she literally owns a home that is completely paid off.

    I’m eager to read your interpretation of Neptune in the 3rd. I almost went to film school. I love photography & the visual arts, was a singer and creative writer in my earlier days. Music is my therapy & I do well manifesting things through visualization. I am definitely spacey, have trouble focusing on dry material.. I blank out the minute folks try to give me verbal directions or go over a menu & it has been pointed out that I often don’t even finish my sentences when talking. I’ll just trail off. I regularly end a sentence with…and am quite liberal with the punctuation. I’m the ultimate Zen navigator and get major inspirations when driving. Oh, and of course, my sisters confuse the heck out of me!!! ;}

    • Hello Kgirl,
      What a pity you and I have come to Donna’s brilliant article so late, like, YEARS after others stopped commenting. I don’t know if you’ll ever see my reply, but I find your post so fascinating I just have to write something.
      Your troublesome twinsters must be close in age to me — I was born in Sept 1965 and have the Pluto-Uranus conj in Virgo, Libra Asc and Neptune in Scorpio in, yep, my second. Your sisters’ pattern of dependency is unusual for Generation X. Our generation works incredibly hard; everyone I grew up with worked to put themselves through uni, and apart from the usual breaks when having kids has been steadily employed and quite good at managing their money. I actually don’t know any 30- or 40-something who has been out of a job for long, even in these times.
      I’m not a professional astrologer like Donna, so my suggestions about your sisters’ horoscope are just guesses based on my own experience.
      Mars can be useful in setting boundaries and defending them. I have Mars close to Nep in the 2nd and thank him for making me absolutely bloody-minded about defending my money from anyone who might try to inveigle it off me or make me fritter it away. Sometimes this has led to arguments, even screaming matches. Heigh ho! I have lived well, travelled far, and at 44 I paid off my house and am now renovating it.
      My 2nd house Neptune does cause trouble sometimes. After years of sensible frugality (my Mars trine Saturn) the Nep can bust out like an underwater earthquake! In 2004 I became addicted to eBay. Bidding and winning gave me such a rush. Fortunately the splurge ended after three months before too much damage was done, but the addiction scared me. My one Nep indulgence these days is the occasional lotto ticket. Given the odds against winning, the ticket buys me a few hours of wild daydreams, nothing more — and that’s OK.
      Your sisters, however, have Mars in the 12th, which would make his energy much harder to access and work with. And urgh, they have Pluto (Scorp’s ruler) in the 12th too, making things very murky. I am guessing these planets would be opposing Saturn in Pisces in the 6th. Saturn, well aspected, makes one prudent with money, and in the 6th would give a good work ethic and sensible daily habits of quiet toil and diligence. Not very sexy, but so useful in steadily building wealth and a good career. Your sisters’ murky 12th house stellium is opposing Saturn, squelching his promise of reward for patience and hard work. It is quite a stellar affliction, and your sisters have always lived with it. What were they like at school? Did they have a hard time knuckling down to study? If so, this would be the root of their financial failure in midlife.
      They have a Libra Ascendant, is that right? Hence their ability to be fiscal courtesans. They have the charm and cunning that allow them to go under and around their horoscope’s money/work aspects and get others to pay their bills. They’ve seemingly arrived on easy street, but as you’ve said, they’ve paid a high karmic price.
      You are right to worry about them, as midlife is sort of too late to begin a career if you don’t already have a good employment record.
      But you need to consider yourself, your parents and other siblings, if you have them. You seem to be right on the ball with money — can you help your parents to write wills that will ensure all siblings get no more than their fair share? Or help lock up your parents’ money in term deposits or trusts so that your twinsters can’t keep asking for handouts? Perhaps you could help your single sister to at least save some of her earnings and get a kick from watching the money pile up.
      And yes, you are right to distance yourself. You have your legitimate interests to defend. I doubt you’ll ever be a patsy for relatives who want to sponge off you — but take care, anyway, because your twinsters have quite a horror-scope.

  28. As someone with neptune in the 2nd house (my Uranus is there too), I can wholeheartedly relate to what you brought up about guilt. The 2nd house certainly house most of mine. My mother is a workaholic and a financial powerhouse-she earns a lot. As a result, I’ve found it really difficult to find financial independence. Maybe because I was a spoiled brat. Maybe because my standards of living are higher than they should be. The “maybe” list is endless, and most of the points make me feel horrible about myself. I feel guilty for the fact that my mother works so hard, and I feel guilty for being surrounded by material wealth that in fact, I don’t value as much as I should. Also, I’m assuming, because Neptune is in my second house. I value sensuality, quality, education, and travel above money and the status that money can buy, and and I think that this is why I’m finding it so hard to detach myself.

    However, just the other day I learned all about north and south nodes. My north node is in the 5th house and Aries. I also happen to be a writer and have spent the past few years of my life doing exactly what my north node implies I should be doing-translating my overwhelmingly powerful “dream life” into something solid and earth. And as the Aries implies- using this lifetime to concentrate on me rather than trying to make everyone around me happy. My mother’s north node is in the 10th house in Capricorn, and I was amazed to read that her destiny in this lifetime is to work really hard, make money, and provide for her family. It also says to never let family get in the way of your career and working so hard. Her whole family has always been trying to get her to work less but she refuses with a laugh. She really loves working. She loves her job, and she’s one of the happiest people I know.

    I’m trying to figure out if I should use this, or try to use this to ease my guilt, or if I am just being too neptunian and seeing things as I want to see them rather that as they are.

    Oh…my sister’s Neptune is also in her 2nd house. We both suffer from the same guilt, and we both have a hard time finding our own financial stability. We both feel horrible for it.


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