Posted by: Donna Cunningham | April 28, 2010

Astrologers’ Hang-ups about Money—How they Hurt our Clients

 ©2010 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

Apparently, I missed the conference where astrologers voted to drop sex and money from the horoscope. By popular acclaim, the 2nd house is no longer about money, it’s about values or self-esteem, and the 8th is now about transformation. At least, that’s the impression I’m getting as I read recent articles, listen to astrologers speaking, and field readers’ questions in this series.

Yes, the 2nd house DOES show what we value most, and therefore how we spend our discretionary income. Our set of values also gives some clues about what we are and aren’t willing to do to earn money.

However, in 40 years of doing chart consultations, I have yet to have a client complain of tossing and turning all night worrying about their values. In today’s difficult economy, a great many are experiencing fear and suffering over finances. They can find it invaluable to explore what their 2nd house shows about their finances and their money-management patterns.

The 2nd House and False Self-Esteem vs. True Self-Worth

I find myself at a loss to understand why self-esteem would be attributed to the 2nd. To me, the only way the 2nd house tells you about your self-esteem is if your self-esteem is dependent on how much money you have. It’s true that vast numbers of people today gain a false self-worth from their net worth, but that’s very different than truly feeling good about yourself.

True self-esteem is a function of the Sun, along with self-worth, self-confidence, and other self words. The house the Sun is placed in and the matters governed by that house are clues to the things that make up our sense of self.

Our competence and success or lack thereof in addressing the matters of that house has a huge effect on our self-esteem. In the 6th house, we base it on the quality of our work; in the 7th, it comes from our partnerships; and on. The picture is further modified by the Sun’s sign, and aspects.

“It’s Not Nice to Talk about Money!”

So why do astrologers persist in focusing on values in the 2nd, rather than talking about money and on transformation rather than sexuality in the 8th?

A major reason may be that it’s not considered polite to delve into other people’s income or sexual practices–certainly not in a social situation or with people you don’t know well. Most of us would be rather uncomfortable with bringing these topics up at a dinner party.

However, an astrology reading doesn’t follow the same rules as ordinary social interactions, where these topics are taboo. Clients are coming to you for help, and many of them suffer from financial problems that cause a great deal of stress, worry and deprivation. Such clients can benefit greatly from taking an honest look at the ways they deal with their finances.

The thing is this:  since it’s hard for people to talk about their money troubles socially, the opportunity to talk those issues through in the privacy, confidentiality, and (hopefully) non-judgementality of the consultation room is priceless.  They can look at their money management patterns honestly and from a detached viewpoint and think about what needs to change. Why would you deprive them of that chance by skirting the issue of finances because you’re not comfortable with it?

Astrologers who can’t look at money in the chart aren’t going to be effective at helping the multitudes of people who are having terrible financial problems during this recession or whatever they’re calling it these days. That, in a nutshell, is why this series is unfolding on Skywriter right now.

How Addressing Money Issues Helps You Serve the Client Better

 To be truly helpful, we need to become at ease in talking about money and asking clients specifics about their ways of managing it. The 2nd house can give important insights into the psychological blockages that lead to unwise attitudes and practices in handling money.

Many gifted and deserving people are acclaimed for their work and still have a money neurosis that keeps them from enjoying the fruits of their labor, so they live marginally. We also need to be comfortable asking about debts, if the 8th house is highlighted natally or by transit, or if Pluto or Scorpio planets appear in the 2nd.

(Practice until it feels okay to bring it up. You can do it tactfully:  “Your chart looks like debts might be a problem.  How are you doing in that area?”)

Millions of people are caught in the debt trap that developed while Pluto was in over-expansive Sagittarius, and so you might suspect that a client is one of them if one of the slow-moving planets has been in the 8th house for a number of years.

I’m not saying we should do this with every client, but certainly the ones who list finances and career among their current concerns—or those whose 2nd/8th axis is getting transits from the Cardinal t-square or the Neptune-Chiron conjunction.

If this type of discussion is awkward for you–or maybe even sets off your own anxiety about debt–then read up on credit problems and solutions and and then practice talking about it until you’re at ease. It doesn’t make you more spiritual to avoid talking with your clients about money—it just makes you less effective.

For instance, statistics consistently show that money problems are the most common cause of marital disagreements. Yet, many clients will say they want to talk about their relationship problems, but few admit that money is causing a strain on that relationship. Thus, when a client raises relationship concerns, do you think to look at the 2nd and 8th houses ­for answers? You won’t look or be comfortable discussing this facet of marital strife if ­money is one of your blind spots.

Do Your own Money Management Patterns Get in the Way?

I think that another reason so many astrologers prefer to talk about the 2nd as self-esteem or values and rarely mention money is because so many of us have trouble managing money ourselves,  and so we’re at a loss in dealing with our client’s money difficulties in a helpful way.

I’m not talking about counseling people on their investments—financial astrology is a specialty it’s prudent to leave to people with solid expertise in that area.  But even if the stock market remains a mystery, knowing our way around the farmers’ market is a skill that pays off.

If we haven’t a clue about how to manage our own money, learning sounder ways of doing that will make our own lives less stressful and give us tools to use in coaching our clients. We can watch the shows about people with shopping addictions. We can read books and articles about money and listen to people like Suze Orman on television.

Can you do that without zoning out?  It took me until I was 60 to start learning money management, and then only because my survival depended on getting grounded during a very difficult Saturn transit to my 2nd house.  (Update:  read more about the serious consequences of astrologers’ difficulties in addressing their own financial issues here: Living Off the Books—an 8th House Quicksand .)

Understanding How your own 2nd House Colors the Picture

   A great many of us who practice astrology or healing have the outer planets in the 2nd or 8th and thus relate to the psychological patterns we’ve discussed in earlier articles about Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto in the 2nd and how they contribute to money problems.

A fresh look at your own chart will help you understand any discomfort you might have in broaching this topic. It is important to understand your own 2nd house difficulties, because if you don’t, not only will it get in the way of a successful practice, it also gets in the way of objectivity about clients’ financial difficulties. And they will ask!

Worse, YOU WILL TEND TO PROJECT YOUR OWN ATTITUDES AND JUDGEMENTS ABOUT ­MONEY ONTO THE CLIENT’S SITUATION.

Suppose you have Uranus or Aquarius planets in the 2nd, while­ your client has Moon in Taurus in the 2nd. You’re bound to ­have some disapproval of their value system, an attitude that can bleed ­through into the session.  Inside you may be saying, “These Taurus people are just ­money grubbers.  Why aren’t they enlightened like me?”  You doubtlessly wouldn’t say that aloud, yet what you do say ­will have the undertone of disapproval, unless you’ve developed an exceptional capacity for self-awareness and self-discipline.

Having Uranus or an Aquarius planet in the 2nd is one position that indicates being able to earn money at astrology. On the other hand, both the social­ consciousness and the rebelliousness that Uranus represents can get in the way of having this work that you love become a solid and reliable source of income.

With this position, you might tell yourself, “I’m too enlightened to charge money like all you materialists, I’m just on earth to enhance ­people’s consciousness.” It is important not to be ­a knee-jerk rebel in a way that keeps you from earning a living­ and meeting your own and the client’s needs.

How the Outer Planets Affect our own Ability to Earn a Living

 Those of us in the helping fields in general—and astrology in particular—suffer from undervaluing their work and undercharging. Astrologers who hide behind “values” because they find it hard to talk to clients about their financial issues are often the same ones who have difficulty in telling clients what they charge.

Many go for 10 years without raising their fees because they suffer from guilt about charging for their work. They gain valuable experience as astrologers, yet still charge what they did when they were just starting out.  More astrologers are uncomfortable with that than are comfortable.

Your way of handling the outer planets when they are in the 2nd can affect your ability to earn a living as an astrologer or healer. For instance, when Neptune or Pisces placements are in the 2nd, the question of balancing spirituality with survival arises.

The practitioner may play the role of Rescuer and may be especially vulnerable to enmeshment in clients’ money­ issues, because of feeling others’ anxiety or pain psychically. They could be chronically taken­ advantage of or feel ­put upon because they have to do menial jobs to make a living that get in­ the way of their dream of being a professional astrologer.

Ask yourself these questions:

Am I uncomfortable talking to clients about money?

Am I being paid what I’m worth for my work?

What does my 2nd house reveal about my own money patterns?

Readers who are astrologers, do you relate to the issues in this article? How comfortable are you with dealing with your clients’ money issues?  And when was the last time you raised your fees?  Talk to us about it in the comment section!

Articles in the Astrology and Personal Finances series:

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Responses

  1. Great article, Donna! And important insights! I admit I am guilty of associating the 2nd house with self-esteem and in fact the worse blow to my self-esteem in years came with an eclipse to the ruler of my 2nd house and it also involved financial revelations. I do believe that our financial health is a mirror of our self-esteem in many ways. But you are right that we shouldn’t neglect the money side of the 2nd house, especially in these difficult economic times.

    It’s funny though that every time I get an 8th house transit it’s all taxes and insurance and paperwork!

    • HI, Nikki, The 8th is definitely the house where the IRS lurks!! Transit after transit, it seems to be so. I’d say insurance, too, and debts, all places where the bill collector gets active under transits. When I see charts with Saturn or the outer planets in a long transit to the 8th, I counsel people to be squeaky clean with their taxes, as any indiscretions will surely be detected. Donna

  2. Another great article in a continuing series of great articles.
    I’ve never had an astrolger ask me about or counsel me about money or sex other than to give vague hints here and there.
    An astrolger advised me to move to Brazil (I am in the USA) and when I asked that astrolger about how I could get enough money to do such a thing, the astrologer said: Money is not the issue here. If you really want to do this the money will come.”
    I asked him where it might come from: An unexpected inheiritance, the lotto, sell off all my possessions? What? How?
    Huh? I am in debt, am employed but most of my money goes to debt repayment at this time,etc..
    I KNOW I have money issues but to me that was an overly facile issue by someone who wanted to give me radical advice but ignore the practicalities involved. And that astrologer is expensive and braggs about their expertise right and left.
    Another thing that bugs me is astrologers who say” If you were sufficiently developed spiritually you would have manifested the money to pay me.
    I don’t mind paying a decent fee to a good astrologer, but how in the world do we decide who is good enough to command the big bucks? And in this economy, are the good ones willing to give us a break or at least set up a payment plan like other professionals will do?
    I have had expensive astrology readings where I wasn’t told anything I didn’t already know or receive any new insights on my life and I have had much cheaper and even free readings that were spot on.
    So, Donna, how do we tell? Some advice here would be good!

  3. Donna – I LOVE this article! I was thinking about this very topic this morning as I was composing my astrology tweet for the day about the full moon in Scorpio, which of course has the Taurus Sun/Scorpio Moon axis. I noted that many of the tweets I saw on my twitter list weren’t talking about money and I wondered why with such a financial moon – and one squared by Mars with retrograde Mercury conjunct the Sun. Anyway –all very fitting for the Goldman Sachs hearings, among other current events.

  4. Thank you, thank you, Donna. When I was studying to be a Certified Financial Planner we were taught that money is a subject people consider more taboo to talk about than sex! Although, as you say, sex is a close second.

    I am very comfortable speaking to both business and astrology clients about money because I’ve had so much experience with it in my other profession. I think with practice it gets easier and easier, although I never did have much trouble since I’m fascinated by and love money as a symbol. I think if an astrologer thinks of money as “the root of all evil” they will not want to talk about it with clients, and maybe they shouldn’t!

    As someone with my Sun in my 6th house, the quality of my work is the most important contributor to my self-esteem. As I gain more and more experience I find it natural to raise my prices for my accounting and financial planning work. I am paid very well for these skills.

    Since I’m just back to practicing astrology, I feel I need to charge less until I gain solid experience. If I charge too much, I feel under too much pressure to be really, really good – as good as I know I will be when I get more experience under my belt. I expect my charging for astrology will go about like my charging for business work goes: the more confidence I build the more I will charge.

    • I can relate to that, Ellen. When I raised my price to $300 at one point, I felt a tremendous pressure to be world-class, and eventually, as the economy softened, went back down. Donna

  5. Sun in the sixth. When I do something well, I feel invincible.

  6. My 2nd and 8th are completely empty…Libra-Aries axis..I feel I charge a ‘fair’ price to my clients. I know what’s the upper and lower limits locally (and internationally) and charge ..in the middle.
    I also always discuss money AND sex with clients. Most clients are happy to have someone prepared to listen to them about these ‘issues’. Mind you I wouldn’t go into discussing them if the client wasn’t happy with the subject.
    I also recommend to countless clients the wonderful book ‘Your Money or Your Life’ by Alvin Hall…
    Funny Donna, how your blogs always arrive just when I’m ‘on the subject’ with a client..I was just emailing a lady back about an appointment later this week…on this very issue, so once again Donna your uncanny accuracy for ‘being in the zone’…thanx, great blog, luv it:)
    In peace
    Mary
    xx

  7. As always, wonderful POV, Donna… $ is something I’ve had to learn the hard way to talk about… and I agree with Ellen- this was a hugely taboo subject when I was growing up…

    so now, talk about it I do… a lot of my clients ask me about it, or are self-employed so need perspective on it….

    I honestly never related to the “self-esteem” part of the 2nd house, but I did get “values”- especially linked to how you value $, do you treat it like you want it to stay around and grow and do you ask for what you are worth…? all indicated in the 2nd house.

    I see the 2nd as your relationship with money and your body (your most valuable possession), as opposed to the 8th house (how your money is merged with another- or how your body likes to merge with another… or others!).

    What I talk about in a session depends on what the client came to me for- but my Scorpio side never falters at a deeper exploration and is delighted by your opening this topic under its full moon…. looking forward- Pamela

  8. I think we would probably all be lying if we all said we’ve NEVER gotten the heebie-jeebies before when looking at a tough part of a client’s chart. This could anything from money, to sex, to difficult family dynamics, to self-defeating behaviors – you name it. However, while we may feel some initial trepidation about broaching what some would consider “taboo” topics, I think it is important to remember that we are being paid for our professional advice, much like a counselor or therapist. To avoid dealing with these issues simply because it makes us feel uncomfortable does our client (and ourselves) a HUGE disservice!

    The key is understanding that it is our professional obligation to shed light on some potentially difficult areas, and that we must also go about this with sensitivity and resolve do our absolute best to present this information in a manner that the client will be receptive to. Our own discomfort or “issues” surrounding an area should not color how we counsel our clients – we need to be able to retain objectivity and help to guide them clearly and honestly. Glossing things over or omitting the less-than-pleasant parts does not give them the complete and honest truth, as it will only allow them to continue to be “in the dark” about a particular matter.

    As Uranus, planet of Awakening, is the planetary ruler of astrology, I can’t help but state the obvious in saying that the main function of our job is to provide our clients with a new level of awareness. Voluntarily skirting around certain issues is pretty much the antithesis of what this profession stands for.

    On the flip side of this coin, I have heard stories about other “professionals” in this field who dish out their brand of “advice” with no regard at all for the feelings/sensitivities of the client, which is equally as upsetting. They tend to speak in absolutes and leave the client feeling helpless and exposed, which is completely counterproductive – not to mention victimizing. As astrologers we will invariably have to deal with some private, sensitive areas and I strongly feel we have an ethical duty to be honest, but also to be respectful and sensitive to where our client is at.

    We should also know exactly where our own limitations lie in what we can provide to our clients. Some of us may feel as if is our job to provide a client with “all the answers” or “fix all their problems” – a certain level of detachment is essential to maintain in this profession. It is, after all, their path – they have to walk it. We can’t do it for them.

    Personally, I don’t find it difficult to talk about much of anything with a client – money or otherwise. I may wince internally a little bit when I see something difficult in a chart, but I take the time to make sure I’m addressing the issue at hand in an honest and compassionate manner – that’s really all I can do. If I played my cards right the client is able to open up and is willing to ask themselves “How’s that REALLY working for me?” I can counsel, advise, and guide to the best of my ability, but ultimately it is they who have to take the steps and make the necessary changes when something isn’t working for them.

  9. Aloha Donna This is a great article, and especially insightful for beginning astrologers who are thinking of doing professional work. From what I’ve read here, it seems like finding a competent, non-judgemental, compassionate astrologer is a hard task for someone who is seeking help on life’s most pressing issues.

    The standards for professional astrologers are not widely known by the public, and I’ve met quite a few who are basically self-taught, have not had a teacher or mentor to evaluate them, or taken any proficiency tests. And yet, they go “professional”, charge large fees for services, and haven’t a clue as to how to conduct themselves in a consultation with a client. That can put the real professionals with years of study, experience and competence in a precarious position when charging a fee to equal their expertise.

    I love the study of Astrology and all the great teachers and mentors who are so willing to pass on their knowledge to students, and hope someday that the profession will be recognized by society as a viable counseling tool, and not a game of stupid predictions and bossy instuctions from incompetent people. Meleanna

    • Meleanna,
      Years ago, I knew a self-taught ‘pro’ astrologer who consistently crossed the line with women, even advocating an ‘energy exchange’ for a reading: (Re: sex) If this man had been in any other profession, he would have been stripped of his credentials and brought up on sexual harassment charges.
      This guy finally got married and went into business with his wife. She started charging huge bucks for a chart reading and would always insert her particular co-dependency with into her work, saying all the women needed ‘male energy input’ into their charts from her husband. She had no previous experience with chart reading prior to charging $100 a reading for charts.
      And this was back in the 80’s when $100 was quite a bit for an astrologer that was not nationally known.
      I am not a professional astrologer but gee golly, I can read charts much better than either of those two. I started studying in 1969 and even hung out with the AFAN folks back when they were in DC.
      I just lack the sense of entitlement that those folks had.

      • Hoo boy, Meloh! Some years back, I was part of an independent committee/effort to bring the problem of astrologers who sexually harassed their clients and students to the attention of the organizations and the public. Some extremely devastating cases had come to light.

        We wrote articles about it and took the problem to the major astrology groups. Several of them already had provisions about it in their codes of ethics, but they all, universally, were extremely loath to address the issue. Even raised the he said/she said problem. They felt there was no way to penalize astrologers who did it, no legal teeth to enforcing the codes of ethics anyway.

        I always say that if we were taken seriously as a profession, we would need malpractice insurance. And financial exploitation of clients belongs in the mix too. Donna

  10. Hmm, I don’t know. I definitely agree with you that the 2nd and 8th Houses are primarily about money, and that it is entirely stupid not to relate them to money when dealing with clients- ESPECIALLY when finances are of huge concern. And yes, I’m totally with you on astrologers projecting their own financial anxieties and undervaluing their own work, because I see a lot of it, and I’m actively trying not to do it myself. When I do readings for clients, I do a SHIT TON of homework, and I go really deep, and I try to be very attentive to what they most need guidance on instead of just navel-gazing and projecting- so it kind of sticks in my craw when I meet other astrologers who charge like $40 a pop for a reading and then they find out what I charge and they’re like OMG WHY DO YOU CHARGE SO MUCH and I’m like WHY DON’T YOU YOU’RE WAY MORE TALENTED THAN I AM.

    But… I am going to make the argument for the 2nd-8th Houses reflecting values and self-esteem too. This is my reasoning. The 1st House is the house of self, that is, you as you are. Most people can’t help being their 1st House, as the qualities indicated there just kind of come “naturally.”

    The 2nd House, however, has to do with acquired things. Money is acquired. Objects are acquired. And, importantly, critically, so is self-esteem and self-worth. Like you said in your article, self-esteem is often tied to things like money and objects and values, and like money and objects and values, it’s extremely impermanent. Also, it has to be worked towards.

    “Liking” yourself is just not the same as valuing yourself, i.e. believing that you deserve the most basic things on Maslow’s hierarchy or what have you. Incredibly enough, some people who acquire money and security don’t really think they deserve it. Some people deliberately don’t eat because they don’t think they deserve to. Some people spend years of their life in therapy working to build self-esteem because due to their circumstances, it is just not something they can easily conjure up. It’s ACQUIRED.

    And while the 2nd House has to do with money that we earn, and ultimately the self-worth and self-esteem that we build, on a material earthly level, the 8th House takes it a step further- as the opposite, it forces us to re-evaluate that self-worth as it relates to something much bigger and larger and out of our control. Yes, all of us will inevitably depend on someone else’s money at some point, and it will hugely shape our own relationship to money. But the 8th House’s other associations (sex, death, etc.) do the same thing to our self-worth, and how we fit into a larger picture.

    I think it’s interesting that these associations are sandwiched between the 7th House (other people) and the 9th House (worldview, philosophy, but in an intellectual way)- because the 8th House embodies something that is somewhere between these two but still enormously powerful in a very visceral way.

    It is a very interesting discussion, though, because money, sex, death, the spiritual, and so forth have all become wedged into the same taboo zone. In fact, I can’t even remember which astrologer it was who once wrote something to the effect of “I’m not even going to TOUCH that shit” about the 8th House, which certainly doesn’t help educate people. I stand my ground, though, that the self-esteem/self-worth is just as strongly figured into that polarity as money.

    • This is a fabulous exchange, Lucy, Donna F, Meleanna, Alethea, et al! I find much to ponder in all that you are saying, but am above all grateful that we have a community of professionals here who can discuss ideas such as these. Donna C.

      • Amen to that!

        Maybe it’s because I’m new-school, but because the primary theme of the 2nd is that of being “the house of value” I personally find it intrinsically tied to how we come to value ourselves. I’m not saying this in the sense that what we have (or don’t have) on the material level should be the sole determining factor of how we feel about ourselves, rather that the sense of self-worth cannot be had without first having a clear psychological definition of what we “value” and whether or not we “own” these qualities.

        For example, do we value honesty, compassion, or self-reliance? What would happen if we failed to live a life in accordance with these values? I think it would be accurate to say we would undoubtedly have a pretty crappy sense of self-esteem if we did not honor what we value. If the 2nd tells us what we value – materially or otherwise – then I think it must also give us some indication of how we feel about ourselves.

        Having said all this, I was also very interested to hear Donna’s take on this. Part of the beauty of this forum is that it provides us with a vehicle to discuss our different perspectives and experiences with astrology. I think it’s worth remembering that astrology is an interpretive art and what holds true for one person may not always jive with another’s point of view. We can all discuss it though, and hopefully learn something from one another in the process!

  11. Donna thanks again for yet another article on that freaky subject for me (Pluto & Uranus in 2!) – money!!!! Particularly pertinent right now – having just lost a bundle in an investment, having a manuscript rejected, and having very little in the way of astrology work coming in (as in none)

    – okay I live in the govt centered, capital of NZ – they ARE a conservative bunch here (yet NZ is Aquarian? weird – our national b’day is 6 Feb)…. So anyone doing astrology here finds it difficult.

    But back to the point – Lucy I really enjoyed your thoughts thank you. I agree with what you say about self-worth, and with such a complex picture here myself, I can tell you I have thought alot about this subject. SO much of my self-worth seems to be linked to my capacity (or lack thereof) to generate income! It’s almost ridiculous. I have a loathing of ‘money issues’ – so Donna thanks for the lecture – I do need to address this in myself.

    This deep inner ‘reliance’ on others – I hate it -but somehow feel powerless to change it. I feel as if everything I attempt in the wider world doesn’t really amount to much….

    I guess I am keeping the sabotaging beliefs alive and well! I have ‘acquired’ this idea around my own self worth AND it is interwoven, inextricably linked to money. And yes, I do feel I am ‘spiritual and no concerned with all of that material stuff’ on one level – but underneath, lurks the monster of insecurity that will give me no peace with that. HELP….
    Again, thank you for relevant and pertinent info at this time Donna. I think you’re fab!

    • HI, Linda, thanks for sharing so honestly. As for self-sabotaging beliefs, we’ve all had them. The new post I just put up addresses how such thoughts and beliefs can become “thought forms” that actually attract experiences that confirm those beliefs. (“Thought Forms–How They Add to Money Blocks”) Check it out! Donna

  12. Saturn is transiting my 2nd house. I am enormously grateful to you for this series at this time. With Uranus conjunct Jupiter in Libra in the 2nd I am welcoming Saturn’s discipline, but it has been so very difficult and hard. I am learning. Thank you.

    • Hang in there, Diastella, I am planning to post a couple of pieces on transits to the 2nd. Donna

  13. ..on the subject of counselling that has been raised a few times, before I went ‘professional’ I studied a Certificate in Introduction to Counselling Concepts and joined the Astrological Association.

    Confidentiality is also important to remember.
    I (as I’ve been in this job for so long) don’t talk about my clients in coffee shops…you don’t know who you’re sitting near and this is a small, small world..

    I’ve had far too many clients come and see me who ‘saw’ Mystic Meg on Brighton Pier, or someone at a party who ‘read’ for them and told them they were going to die age XX…..very 8th house stuff…and I’ve had to point out to them where I thought the person concerned might have got that idea from…then have to re-assure them that they’re fine.
    I agree with Meleanna there are people who work like that (or cause grief if you ask me!) and it’s my job to be as professional as I can…
    …however, we’re dealing with people…not planets and I think that’s where the problem comes in….and I also have a supervisor where I can ‘take’ troublesome clients issues and talk them through, so I don’t inflict my ‘stuff’ on the client.
    I’m not perfect, no-one is, but an awareness of confidentiality, boundaries, projection, body-language all help:)
    In peace
    Mary
    xx

    • HI, Mary, The idea of having a supervisor or mentor to talk over issues that come up for the practicing astrologer is such an excellent support system, but it’s rare, unfortunately, in the US. I think it would be especially helpful for astrologers who are just starting out. Donna

  14. I’ll stick with Donna’s sex and money interpretation.

    Of course, I have three planets in Scorpio, and Pluto links to my Sun with an opportunistic sextile.
    ;)

  15. Great article, Donna. I have Uranus in the 2nd in my natal chart. I have grappled with all the key points you make about this placement.

    The tight economy has encouraged healing in my case. I’m finally getting comfortable with making money from astrology. I realize that my devotion and huge investment for years of many resources—time and money—to get to my present state of astrological insights deserves the same decent living as any other profession. I’m watching so many people pushed out of their comfort zone with the economy and surprisingly good results, in many cases, for the nudge. Makes me envision a laughing God, grown impatient with the human resistance to change, giving us some affectionate shoves in new directions by putting a clamp on our wallets.

    I agree that self-esteem is primarily a Sun issue. The 2nd speaks to me of our relationship to materiality. That can be money or ways to make it … but for me, the relationship to values is what we care about enough to “put our money where our mouth is.” I’m going to start watching how that shifts with transiting planets into the 2nd, joining Uranus, the resident free spirit. Venus is on its way, and I’m afraid to envision the decorating scheme, LOL!

    • “Put my money where my mouth is.” Great summary of the money=values equation. I’m so glad to hear you’re back doing charts–we need you, Joyce. Next you’ll be back doing flower essence consults!

      I’ve known Joyce and her work since the 1980s, folks. Do check out her site and blog. Donna

      • Donna, thanks for the positive testimonial! :) I’m doing a lot of pondering this Mercury Retro about how far I want to go back into the Aquarian waters while still keeping focused on my 1st love, writing. I’ve had my toe in, doing a few readings again in the past six months. It felt better than ever, so I’m sure it’s a cosmic nudge in the right direction.

  16. Hi Everyone,

    Dont you think we can stop pussy-footing around with “taboo” subjects and tell our truths? That will free us up.
    Nice blog,Donna,

    As Ever,
    Molly K.

  17. I do think I’m lucky that I can comfortably talk sex and money with clients, I never realized how much a problem it was for so many people! I think with a couple of planets in Capricorn as well as a Saturn-Venus trine with Venus ruling my 2nd house makes me practical when it comes to dealing with money issues. I also think the 2nd and 8th offset each other very well … how often do money issues interfere with emotional and sexual intimacy within a relationship? The conversation on this thread has been eye opening! Thanks again!

    • I do think that an astrologer having earth planets (other than Neptune, perhaps) in the 2nd would be quite an asset in both advising and modeling healthy, practical money management skills to clients. We all bring a certain background to our astrology practices, and that is why we are all different. Donna

  18. Donna, we need that committee back, because sexual harassment still happens. Especially considering all the huge generational gaps that exist in the community right now, there are certain older men (no names, of course) who are only really enthused about the new generation because they really believe they have the right to any Pluto-in-Scorpio with a vagina. I’ve experienced it myself, and I’ve heard tons of stories from friends about certain astrologers who have, if not actually propositioned them, made them seriously uncomfortable at events and via e-mail. And the higher organizations damn well should take it seriously, because for every douchehound astrologer who sexually harasses his colleagues and clients, that’s about ten more people who decide that astrology is bunk and we really are all a bunch of manipulative David Koresh sex maniacs.

    • You go, Lucy!! They are certainly out there and I only wish I could name names. There is one who is famous but also notorious, and more than one gal who worshipped him from afar because he’s so grandiloquent has scheduled an expensive appointment with him at a conference and been shocked when he put his hand down her blouse. It infuriates me that there’s nothing that can be done. Donna

      PS. I guess we ARE doing the 2nd/8th axis, after all.

  19. Oh boy, where do I begin hehe? My second house is ruled by Cancer (making my 8th Capricorn of course) but my 4 Cappy placements all land in my 7th, not 8th. No planets are in my 2nd, so in going to the ruler – my Moon is in the 3rd (Leo), and I feel the aspects are really important in this case: trine Jupiter in Aries/11th, opposite Venus and Saturn in Aquarius/9th, square Neptune in Scorpio/6th, and exactly parallel to Pluto/4th! (For those who need to know – a parallel is a declination measurement and can act similarly to a conjunction).

    So right away, anyone can see the Moon opposite Saturn as an issue – and with Saturn in rulership and almost at the midheaven, Saturn wins, not the Moon! Venus opposite the Moon (wants vs. needs) is also a bit tricky, and I still figure out ways to reconcile those energies. The Pluto influence can feel pretty fearful, but I am conquering that over the years.

    The hardest aspect to me is the square to Neptune!! For a long time, despite my best efforts to understand, I would think I finally get it, but then it would just slip away (and when Neptune was transiting my 8th, this was more evident!). Marrying a Pisces with a good relationship with Neptune is helping me understand this energy and how to operate with it.

    I think the Jupiter trine has saved me more times than I can count and keeps my spirits up. I have always been able to manifest the bare minimum of what I need in the nick of time, but find it difficult to build more than that.

    This has reflected by me learning lessons only to have more and different lessons thrown in right after. I am getting MUCH closer now, and I believe the key (besides ancestral healing, energetic healing, etc. that would stray this way off topic) is a good relationship with Neptune. In those areas, I need to trust SPIRIT and not be concerned how it will all work, and just KNOW it will because I ask for it with right intention.

    By the way, one of my other observations is when the Moon is in hard aspect with Saturn, there can be geographical issues involved, and that certainly has also been the case with me – and I am figuring out how to get around those challenges, mostly via internet. Would like to see how others experience, and handle, these aspects (especially the Neptune ones) if they have them!

  20. Interesting discussion. I like to think of the 2nd house as what we value and do we live up to what we value in a good way. If we stay true to our own spiritual values we feel good about ourselves.
    My 2nd house is empty except for the Asteroid Ceres that is in a 4 degree conjuction to Vesta at the end of the 1st house.. The 2nd is ruled by Pluto or Mars. Pluto ( 10th H) squares Ceres in the 2nd house and represents the old saw between the changing of the seasons and being in harmony with this cyclic change. Sometimes my finances are good and gets me what I need and at other times its tight but I get by.
    I use to practice WOLF eating….ie Feast when the feasting s good and fast whether I need to or not. This keeps my body fit for change.
    I do soul charts for my friends…usually 30 hand written pages and charge them 100.00. I figure people have hard times in the economy and I do not need to charge more than this. I do not do public advertising or do it for a living. I do Tarot at public events once in a while and do people in general and feel like a councilor when I do this and my greatest pleasure is that people are satisfied and give me positive feedback so I feel like it really helped them.
    If people can not pay my asking price I do trades and one freebie to amp the day. I use to do Hand readings for the public and have had all kinds from all walks of life and levels of discussions. This is very interesting for me and I value the experience.

  21. @Barehand: Enjoyed reading that. Thank you for sharing!


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