Posted by: Donna Cunningham | May 5, 2010

Living Off the Books—an 8th House Quicksand

©5-5-2010 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

 I shoulda known this series about money was trouble. I thought I could write a couple of nice, informative little pieces about the 2nd house, speak my mind about the 2nd=values +self-esteem equation, and move on blithely to more congenial topics. Yeah, right. That’s just not how writing works for me.

 How writing works for me is that I go to bed relieved that I’ve written all I’m going to write on a tough subject. Given my Pluto, that’s mostly what I’m compelled to write about—tough subjects. Not writing about them is NOT an option or I get no peace.

 Then I wake up at 3:00 AM with a new and unexpected facet of the issue rapidly scrolling through my mind. I have to get up, even if the house is as icy as Dakota in January, and rush to the computer. If I don’t jot the ideas down as fast as I can, I won’t remember any of them in the morning.

So what I unexpectedly woke up writing about in the middle of the night this time is the 8th house, astrologers, and taxes. Oh, yeah, and insurance. I don’t quite recall why I decided the 8th house represented insurance—maybe because I did charts for many insurance agents over the years, and their charts had vocational indicators in the 8th. (If you can think of any other logical house for it, let me know.)Skywriter Donna Cunningham astrological humor

I don’t WANT to write about taxes and insurance—facts of life too many astrologers do their best to ignore—but it follows logically from yesterday’s post on Neptune transits and the 8th house. There’s something I neglected to mention yesterday while ranting on the scams and frauds those transits can bring.

And that’s a heads up about the perils of keeping your income off the books. Given the right Neptune or Pluto transits to the 8th or 2nd or the right transits to natal 8th house planets, you may hear from the IRS, and it won’t be friendly.  In fact, any financial finagling you’re doing that’s not strictly on the up and up may come back to bite you. But taxes are particularly risky.  Don’t mess with Taxes.

So many astrologers take that risk—and the reasons come right back to the difficulties in dealing with money we talked about in another article. They rationalize keeping their practice off the books in several ways:

1) we aren’t making enough that we can afford to pay taxes,

2) our VALUES say that charging what we’re worth and treating our practice as a business isn’t spiritual, and

3) we don’t want our money used to wage war and oppress 3rd world countries while the corporate fat cats don’t pay a dime in taxes, etc, etc.

Hey, I can relate to every bit of that. No argument on any of it. It’s not fair. But I was always squeaky clean in paying taxes, even though it was a serious hardship. April was the most terrifying month of the year.

Why would I pay, you wonder?  It’s not like our clients send in 1040 forms on us.

I did it because my chart said that not doing it would get me into serious trouble.

Knowing my chart has saved me from tons of grief—warning me not to take up smoking in order to lose weight, for instance. (With a Mercury like mine, only an idiot would smoke!)  

What my chart had to say about taxes was that I would most likely go to jail if I cheated on them. I have the South Node in Pisces in the 8th, squared by Uranus and Saturn. The ruler of my 2nd is in the 12th, the house of prisons.

 In my early days in astrology, prison was one of the commonly listed meanings of the 12th. Now we’re too spiritually evolved to mention it, despite the alarming statistics on overcrowded prisons.

I paid and paid and paid, and, yeah, I struggled. Just so you know, anyone who believes writers make tons of money is living in a dream world. And then during a Neptune transit, my hips swiftly deteriorated, leaving me housebound and in continual pain because I did not have insurance to pay for hip replacement.

In order to cover insurance premiums, I had to stop paying quarterly estimated taxes for more than two years.

Once I’d healed from the surgeries, I filed my back tax forms, and the IRS came down on me like a ton of bricks. There were heavy threats to take everything, and I feared I’d wind up homeless. I had to ask for help from friends and even from the astrology organizations, the most humiliating thing I’ve ever had to do.

My tax man negotiated an Offer in Compromise that took an ulcer-making year to come through. We settled the IRS problem, though it meant being on their radar for seven years. I paid back all my friends and kept up with my quarterly payments.

The trouble with the IRS that my natal chart predicted did happen after all, though I didn’t quite wind up in prison. I didn’t do anything wrong; the trouble came because of another 8th house problem, insurance.

I decided to start collecting my Social Security benefits as soon as I was entitled to them at age 62, and it has been such a blessing.  It has enabled me to stop doing consultations, something I desperately needed. And I am fully covered by Medicaid and supplemental insurance. I thank God every month when that check arrives that I listened to my chart and paid taxes all my life.

My fellow astrologers, you worry me, because very few full time astrologers have insurance. And lots of us are getting old and falling ill—we hear such heartbreaking stories. More than I’d really care to know are living off the books. They will not be eligible for Social Security or Medicaid. Folks, as hard as it may be to envision, we do get old!!

It’s really odd for me to be writing this series.  I’m no kind of financial expert—I’m Moon Maven, not a money maven.  But what I have finally learned through all that trouble is how to live within my means.  And maybe that’s the most valuable thing I can impart in this time of Pluto in Capricorn and the Cardinal t-square.  I promise you, I’m almost done–two more pieces to go. 

If this article rang bells for you, you’ll want to read  The Unsuspected Role of the 8th House in Fiscal Fitness   and the followup: Pluto Transits to the 2nd or 8th —Money Issues Get Murky .  The comments on these posts give me the courage to keep on writing about this topic.  Thanks, folks. If you can shed any light on this particular issue, by all means use the comment section.

Articles in the Astrology and Personal Finances series:

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 If you’re already a subscriber and want a copy, forward the most recent email post to me at moonmave@spiritone.com. To sign up for a subscription, go to the top right hand corner of the blog and click on “Subscribe.”  Then send me an email with your subscription confirmation or an email post with a request for the booklet in the subject line.

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Responses

  1. My husband & I may gritch & groan but we’ve almost always paid our taxes in a timely manner. The one time he choose not to pay quarterly estimated on his self employment income, we ended up having to sell property to cover the tax bill. He has Mars in Scorp in the 8th sq Pluto (my 8th house is empty).

    Insurance & the 8th . . . hmmmm. Insurance does operate like taxes in that individuals pay into a pool which is used to cover expenses for a group of people.

    These are very valuable posts, Donna. Money, insurance, dealing with banks & other financial institutions and taxes are facts of life to be ignored at one’s own peril.

    diane~

    • It’s a very tough question, Diane, and I don’t know what I would have done if I had children to support. I probably wouldn’t have become an astrologer. Donna

      • Hi Donna, have been following your musings for quite some time now….and your current story hits home….have been in a divorce/court situation for 5 years now with all funds blocked (a long story, some of it classic) but the IRS came down and attached my only income (couldn’t pay them obviously) plus the Swiss fisc did the same – everyone tells me they don’t have the right, oh yeah) and if it weren’t for friends and a current male friend I’d be on the street and even this relationship is difficult. Funny part, closed down my Insurance plans to survive so there is that connection as well. Now having past a Saturn return, and with Pluto on my Moon life’s been one carousel ride….help!!!! I don’t see the light anymore at the end of the tunnel….my spiritual path has kept my nose just above the water…..but not much higher and obviously the self-esteem is in the toilet.( did a quetionnaire last night in Spiritual Care and I had 14 checks against 15 for causes of stress in one’s life); having to think of starting from scratch at my age is a real dream, or not!! bises, B ( date 05 august 1949; Manchester UK 12:15pm). Funny I had done a relocation chart before I moved back to Europe, was supposed to be good, but it’s been downhill from the beginning..and now I can’t move, not yet)

      • I can imagine that you’re scared and despairing–what a nightmare you’ve been through! There are a few Bach flower remedies that kept me going during the worst of my time. Rescue Remedy is really good in a crisis, especially when you’re paralyzed by panic. Elm is for overwhelm, very helpful. Oak is for those who’ve had a long hard life and feel at the end of their rope. But it sounds like you may need Sweet Chestnut, for the dark night of the soul. (See articles on this site about it.)

        If you’ve never used the remedies before, download the free chapter from my essence book. It doesn’t work to put links in this section, so go to the category “Healing Tools” at the side of this blog and look for essence articles. You may not believe it now, but you will get through this. Donna

      • Yes, very familiar with the flowers and will add to what I’m already taking…love the Planetary Apothecary site and follow as religiously as possible and actually thinking of starting again in the flowers and essential oils…thanx for the info…and I appreciate the forwards.B

      • Well Donna, more news..my divorce was finished by the judge on the 29th April (just after the FULL MOOM), the lawyer was informed on the 11th of May (Mercury went direct) and he informed me 5 days later that I had lost pretty much everything – a clean cut as they call it here – feels more like a violation using the play on words! (Venus square Saturn)

        It’s funny I cried, but I’m calm, it’s over and Pluto is still on the Moon (well you have the data….) in the 3rd. By the way I didn’t say that I loved your site as well..

      • That’s very hard, Bernadette, but Pluto does bring about deep and final changes…and when the change is divorce, it tends to be a rather nasty one. Donna

      • I have my pluto & uranus in the 8th house – every death puts me through major life altering changes – I transformed my life over and over and don’t even recognize myself. I have had financial problems all my life due to Venus 2nd in Aquarious opposing Uranus Leo as well as love problems. I never had insurance or IRS problems thank god. I have enough problems with my chart and life always going through transformation but I have overcome it all through my spritual life. I hope I live a long life since I was threatened with death repeatedly but I fear with Pluto and Mars transiting Pluto in 9 years will I make it again?

      • Hi, Gary, You’ve been through a lot, and I can understand your worry. But if that transit is 9 years away, you have 9 years to figure out what life patterns you repeat that place you in the path of death threats and dangerous situations. If you identify, understand, heal, and transform those patterns, then death threats can be put in the past. One set of articles on Skywriter that might be helpful are the series on Thought Forms. Use the search engine on site to find them. Donna

  2. I hear you about prison! :) I would think everyone would want to avoid that, so there must be something in my chart that makes me fear prison. Which to me is a good thing.

    The ruler of my 2nd is in the 1st house…so maybe that means I care about me, and don’t want anyone else controlling me. I just thought it meant I want control of my financial situation…and I do.

  3. Posting this on FB for my beloved astro community.

    • Thank you, Neeti, I do think it’s a community issue, or at least something for the community to think through. Donna

  4. I just wanted to say thank you for this series of articles. This focus you’ve had on money matters has really been useful. Esp now that Pluto is lighting up all of that. I’ve got Gem on the 8th cusp, with Mars floating in Cancer in there, and I’ve always paid my taxes. Not because I chose to, but because I had to. The system is different where I live, if you don’t pay taxes they hit you with heavy fines the same year. You send in your taxes in May (just finished) and you get a statement in September. So no chance of avoiding. Thanks for the tip on insurance. I’m not good with that, and will take an extra look. I don’t have to worry about health insurance (it’s free here), but I do have to consider making a pension plan at some point. I’d like very much to be able to afford to live south … Working as a freelancer makes me more responsible for my own pension than if I was a wage earner and paid taxes every month like every body else. It took me a few years to realise that …
    My great grandmother did not trust insurance companies one bit, she had a stable of horses. She had a bank account for each horse (in it’s name) , and put money into it every time the horse made her money, so if something happened to that horse, there would be funds to pay for a new horse or a veterinarian. I try to do the same when I sell one of my manuscripts …

    • So you live in a country where there is universal health care? It sounds wonderful–here in the US, vast numbers are uninsured and can be ruined by a health crisis, like I was. Hard to know yet exactly what the recently passed health reform bill will mean. Donna

  5. Wow, so much to ponder here! Well, if it’s any consolation to you Donna, the rest of us are grateful that you follow those sudden 3:00am urges to get up and write when it would be far, FAR easier to just say “The hell with it!” and cram your head under a pillow instead :-)

    There’s a lot of food for thought in this article and you bring up some really important issues. Personally, I don’t think anyone can or should work under-the-table long term – whether it’s in astrology or any other line of work. The second may be the house of earning and spending, but it also shows us how we meet our obligations. Taxes (and debt) as 8th house turf are just that – an extension of our obligations. Just ask anyone who’s ever had a rough Saturn transit to the 8th and found “Uncle Sam” knocking at their door about where evading the responsibility to meet their tax obligations got them. I’ve known several such individuals and although they’ve been self-employed in various fields, they all have one distinct thing in common – they say if they had to do it all over again they’d keep things on the “up-and-up”.

    If you’re self-employed, paying taxes is important because it legitimizes what you’re doing. You are suddenly brought out of the world of the amateur, part-timer, or the fly-by-nighter and are dropped into a very different reality – one in which you have to take what you’re doing seriously and play by the rules. I think that’s why so many people try to avoid it, because it’s like going from playing T-ball in your back yard to hardball in the major league. As they say though, the 2 certainties in life are Death and Taxes – everyone’s gotta pay.

    Having said all this, there are many who moonlight to make ends meet or who just god-honestly don’t make enough at the fledgling stages of getting their business off the ground to deal with the additional burden of paying taxes, let alone taking things like insurance or retirement into account as well. I’m sympathetic to this plight, as it is hard when you first start ANY business to get a steady client base and real revenue flowing. BUT (and it is a BIG “but”) you can’t opt out of paying your dues forever! If you’re going to take this route temporarily then you need to set strict and realistic parameters for when you should take that next step. And take it you must.

    You bring up really important points as well about the importance of having insurance so that you don’t accidentally bankrupt yourself. This could happen a number of ways, from an accident, to an illness, the death of a partner whose financial support you or your family depend upon, or some kind of natural disaster. Look at all those poor people in the Gulf Coast who didn’t have flood insurance for their homes during Katrina! At the risk of sounding like an advertisement for an insurance company, we need to acknowledge that there are a lot of “ifs” in life and it’s not smart to press your luck or play the odds to save a few bucks in the short-term. Doing so is like playing Russian roulette – a dangerous gamble indeed.

    Retirement/Social Security is another big one. I think Pluto in Capricorn and Uranus in Aries are urging us to rely less upon things like big business pensions, Wall Street, and government-funded retirement programs like Social Security so that we start taking our futures into our OWN hands. We need to think about things like starting our own savings plan or IRA instead of relying solely on Social Security to take care of us when we’re ready to retire.

    I think we’ll see more entrepreneurs emerging out of the rubble of this era than ever before, which is why this article is so poignant and topical as it deals with the some of the potential hazards of being self-employed. As we go out forging a new and completely different path for ourselves we need to think about the possible pitfalls that lay in the road ahead, and also bear in mind the old Uranian axiom of “Freedom without responsibility is license, not liberty”. Uranus in Aries opposing Saturn in Libra cautions that we do give Saturn some consideration as we set out. If we want to be truly independent we have to temper it with a little responsibility and caution. Saturn is exalted in Libra and rather than teeter-totter from one extreme to the other we must find a balance…

    • So much to think about, Alethea. As a senior member of the field (67), I just wanted to present some of the realities that we can encounter if we wait too long to find ways of getting on solid ground. Donna

      • And all of us newbies (and not-so-newbies) thank you for it! It’s a lot easier to learn from someone else’s difficult experience and good advice than it is to cut your knees stumbling about on your own.

        Part of what makes your writing so enjoyable to read is that you relate so much of it to your own personal experiences and you’re so willing to share what you’ve learned during your very accomplished career. I’m very grateful for your generosity and appreciate the wisdom you continue to share with us!

  6. Financial mavens have their place but it is so good to hear from someone who found out how to do things the hard way.
    I have Neptune in the 2nd- with the ruler in the 12th and I don’t have much to say besides “thank you.” Tackling finances can be very daunting especially when you feel like you don’t even have the courage to look.

    • I agree Beth…I have Neptune in my 2nd house and I literally used to be afraid to even look (deathly afraid). I’ve learned that it is better to look and try to handle it than to avoid it. Usually, the fear was much worse than anything I found by looking. Still it is tempting to just hope it will work out on it’s own.

    • I think that’s so true–when you’re too scared for survival, you can just freeze up and be immobilized. Been there too many times. Donna

  7. Tks Donna for your work! Having Saturn in my 8th house (sag)paying my taxes, my own health insurance (here we don´t have social security), and never get debts (neither credit card) allows me to sleep everynight!
    In Argentina we know that goverment isn´t going to take care of you and need to have our own savings plan to take care of us when we´re ready to retire. Also we aren´t use to have an insurance because people doesn´t trust in that co…remember that in 2001 the goverment keeps all of our savings that were in the banks so from very young we are teach that you must take care ok yourself……

  8. It makes sense to me that insurance falls into the 8th house. The insurance companies are making their money from the collection of others’ money and when you try to collect it is their money that you finally may or may not get; in other words: “other people’s money.”

    • That’s what I thought. It sure ain’t MY money!! Donna

  9. A benefit of paying taxes on self-employment earnings is the income counts toward your Social Security benefits. People only get Social Security income after retirement if they have paid into the system, and to a certain extent (i.e., if you’re not wealthy), the more you pay in, the more you can collect after retirement.

  10. I have Saturn in 12. Although it does not aspect my 2nd or 8th House and makes only good aspects to the ruler of my eighth (Venus – Taurus), that Saturn in 12th tells me if I do wrong, I suffer and may be imprisoned.

  11. Here is the thing…..if you do what is in your heart, and I know that you have done this, Donna…..alot of times it is rough in the finance department. Or rough out in the world where the bottom line is what counts. Sorry to hear about your rough times.
    Sounds like what I have been through recently . I want to say “I’m hip”, but I may be asking you to stretch you sense of humor a tad.

    You may add musicians to your list of people you pray for. However, I wouldn’t trade my music for the world.

    When I leave this planet I can smile and know I did my work.

    Hope all’s well,
    molly K.

    • I enjoy your comments, Molly, and already knew you were a musician. (I thought you were a different Molly until I followed the links to your site and saw the wonderful pix.) And I know the same difficulties around making a living apply to musicians and all sorts of talented people who want to make a living doing what they love. Donna

  12. Write more if you want to…a whole lot more! lol But seriously thanks a bunch for doing these articles. These are the kind of astrology articles that I want to read about…real info coming from a real person who has shared their personal experience.

    Money has been a interest of mine for a long time. I’m guessing it’s due to the Sun conjunct Mars in the 8th in Aries & NN in Taurus. I’ve not always done right with it but I been thru enough at an early age and learned from my own stupidity in my 20s & 30s to learn that nobody is gonna take care of you but you. I’ve written about this a bit in my blog under the personal finance tag/label.

  13. Donna, thank you so much for not bashing IRS! I’m retired on disability pension from IRS, my parents retired from IRS, and my brother is still working for IRS. It’s our family business.

    Part of what I did every day was to assist self-employed people who had not filed returns but suddenly needed their Social Security benefits and had been sent to us for help. I had been self-employed most of my working career myself before IRS. Felt so good to help these people.

    My solar return for the year I went to work for IRS had my 8th House with Mercury, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune, 6th House with Mars and Pluto. Sun was 4o from 8th House cusp – in 7th and there I was, going to work with people who had known me since I was born!

    Astrology was as afar away from my thoughts at that time as could be. Finding my life in charts now is interesting.

    And I’m thrilled that an Offer in Compromise was the right fit. Sounds like you were just the sort of person that OICs were designed to help.

    My natal chart has my Sag Sun in 8th House. Did I “inherit” my IRS job from my Sag Desc dad? LOL

    • Wow, fascinating about your 8th house, Parin. Folks, this is why I love blogging–where could you get data like this?

      I must say that the woman at the IRS that my tax man and I originally spoke with was tough yet sympathetic but very realistic about what to expect, it being a difficult process. The application for the Offer in Compromise wound up being several inches thick, but without it being approved, I would have been in very serious trouble indeed.

      And yes, I would imagine that Sag Sun was part of the signature, but also Saturn, which signifies authority figures in general, but if you have Capricorn on the 10th, it would be a signature 2 ways. Donna

  14. In fact, my natal MC is 28o Capricorn, the location chart for the town I was in when IRS hired me MC was 17o Capricorn, and my current location MC is 29o Capricorn–the end of all tax work, for me at least. :)

    My father was Sun and Moon Capricorn, Scorpio Asc (where I got Sag Desc earlier is beyond me, and apparently beyond the few gray-matter cells I have left as well. I am now looking DIRECTLY AT HIS CHART. XD). That retired revenue agent in corporate audit could be one cold, calculating dude when he wanted to be! LOL

    • Oh, yeah, Cap/Scorpio can be calculating and tough where business is concerned, but that’s a lot of what you see in the corporate sector. It’s like Pluto and Saturn combined, and that’s a big part of the energy we’ve all be contending with by transit these past 8-9 months and will be the whole duration of the Cardinal t-square.

      That’s why I’ve been doing the series about money and the other one about the Pluto-Saturn square. (Folks, there are another dozen or more articles here in the category “A Pluto-Saturn Preparedness Kit”. Lots of tips for how to get through this.) Donna

  15. And I’ve been absorbing those articles like a Bounty paper towel. Thank you for putting them together. My natal is Saturn/Pluto trine.

    I want to really dig into this Saturn/Pluto square and the Cardinal t-square. I have no planets in the early cardinal houses but my mother and both of my most excellent offspring daughters do (we live in Castle Anthrax). My poor mother’s Sun is 5o Capricorn.

    Fun times! *~0

  16. In a very general sense, I look at the 2nd house as my income and the 8th house as my expenses. The 2nd house to me is also my expenses at the hands of others (what others’ “cost” me). The 2nd is the benefit of my own values and also the cost (to me) of the values of others. So, if I pay into the darn pool for insurance against catastrophe or failure, that’s an 8th house expense in a very general sense.

    But then in my quirky Aquarian with Virgo Rising way, I see it all more derivatively. I think, well Jupiter (natural ruler 9th) represents protection and Saturn (natural ruler 10th) working well is success. The opposite of success is failure, so maybe that’s the 4th house in some way, opposite of the 10th. Protection from failure (insurance) then is the 6th house away from the root house.

    So, then I think the 6th House might also have something to do with insurance in general, secondary to the 8th House. More specifically, I think home insurance then shows up in the 9th (the derivative 6th house if the 4th house of home/house is the base). Health insurance shows up in the 6th and 11th Houses (the derivative 6th house if the 1st house and 6th houses of health are the bases, respectively). Sports insurance shows up in the 10th (derivative 6th house if the 5th house is the base). Car insurance shows up in the 8th House (derivative 6th house if the 3rd house is the base). Old Age insurance (social security) either shows up in the 11th (6th of 4th house) or the 3rd (6th of 10th house) depending on your astrological opinion of which house (4 or 10) really represents old age. Business insurance would show up in the 10th or 4th houses (if you think the 5th and 11th houses relate to independent business activities as opposed to the 10th of career and the 6th of working for someone else).

    Benefits/awards received from the costs of any of these insurances are then shown by the opposite derivative house. So if I get a large settlement from having had my car insured, that would then show up in my 2nd house. If I actually get any of the tremendous amount of money I’ve paid into social security back for myself (it will be broke by then), that would show up in my 11th house (or the 3rd if you subscribe to the 4th house representing old age).

    I know, I know. But I’ve also got Mercury in Cap and sometimes things just get this detailed. The forest AND the trees for me.

    • Ah, that’s a good, simple way to look at the 2nd/8th axis–the 2nd as your income and the 8th as expenses. Good!

      And a good, detailed analysis of insurance, as there are so many kinds. You didn’t mention life insurance, which is really death insurance and goes to your heirs, so it ought to be 8th house. Incidentally, I do think Capricorn is an excellent placement for Mercury, especially where business or management is concerned. Donna

      • I am now thinking of a friend who hasn’t a penny to his name and yet has lived very comfortably and has happily pursued his painting for most of his adult life in the well appointed house of another person. His 8th is staked. Another married into a family with a very old and well established business. He has an lively 8th with mercury taking center stage and he has become the spokesperson for that business. In my own chart it has proved to be more of a gift giver than a taker. SO can not the 8th bring benefits also in the form of patrons, well off spouses and the like? Is it most peoples’ experience that it operates only in debt related arenas?

      • No, I’m one of the only people that talks about the 8th and debts/credit cards, etc. (Many astrologers have an aversion to talking about money, period, which doesn’t help their clients who have money problems.) It’s more in the classical model to talk abut patrons and benefactors, inheritances, etc.

        While there are times when some financial support is needed and a blessing, relying on others long-term tends to warp the relationship seriously. See: http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/05/07/pluto-transits-to-the-2nd-or-8th-%e2%80%94money-issues-get-murky/ Donna

  17. Hi Donna,
    your association of the 8th with insurances makes a lot of sense: as opposite to the 2nd (values), the 8th always seeks the “security” that she feels is always beyond her possibilities; it’s a dialectical relationship with the opposite house! :)

  18. Just coming back to look at this one since it was included in the email yesterday related to career articles…I definitely have some cleaning up to do related to taxes being a free-lancer and keeping shoddy records the last few…I think I have some time right now since I’ve been getting happy transits from Jupiter and now Neptune the last year-two, nothing’s doin in any of my career houses except Pluto meandering through the end of my 10th which it’s already been doing for a while. Saturn will hit my libra stellium of Saturn/Jup/Merc/Pluto/Sun in a year or two (Saturn will start the saturn return this November)- would it be safe to say that I’ve got some time before all this could hit? All of these are in my 7th house except Sun which starts the 8th. Also I’ve got Venus hanging out in my 8th house from now until January, good tidings for a while (thought it’s up to me to use this time to prepare for what could be coming)? Anyone have any ideas?

  19. I, up until now, have gone for the house the insurance is related to and it’s relation to saturn and pluto ie 6th for health insurance, 3rd for product warranties that one pays for in advance (like applecare) 8th for how my partner’s “junk is hanging” or for money coming in from partners or others that I have access to for which I rendered no service. etc. but I love knowing more and your post of insurance falling into the jurisprudence of the 8th make sense and I will add it to my tool belt! I have Pluto in the 8th trine the asc, sex ven.nep in the 10th and jup/ur cnj skirting it from the 7th (and well into the 8th in the koch system). When I was young and asked what I wanted to be when I grew up I said “I just want them send me the check” back when I thought the check just magically appeared. It has, in many ways, been the way things have turned out to a degree. This impinges at times on the 10th’s effectiveness, though at times (ju/ur sq ven/nep in the 10th. I enjoy the benefits of being thought of as a creative even inspirational, person in my various fields of pursuit but I often lack the incentive, having little ambition to pursue them until there is a transit or directional event bearing down. (Having this as a conscious dynamic I can often compensate) aloha, U P

  20. Nicholas Devore acribes the 8th with insurance in his encyclopedia.

    • That’s a great old book–it explains all those technical facets of astrology and older teachings. A modern version, easier to come by and up-to-date is The Astrology Encyclopedia by James Lewis (not Jim Lewis of Astro*Carto*Graphy). Donna

  21. This is a fantastic article, Donna — thank you! Reading your story gave me chills of recognition and not a little anxiety. It seems as though no matter how much we try to forestall disaster, there is no escaping the negative effects of unfortunate natal placements or “challenging” transits. You knew your chart, you were scrupulously honest, and you still got hammered.

    I have Neptune in the 8th, square 12th house Sun and 6th house Uranus, opposite 2nd house Mars. Yeah, it’s that good. ;-) The last time Saturn transited my Neptune (joined by Pluto!), I got a phone call at work from the IRS threatening to garnish my wages because I hadn’t filed the year before at my previous job.

    Idealistically (as per Neptune), I’d thought maybe I didn’t owe any tax at that old job; that I’d earned too little to qualify. The IRS felt differently. Fortunately, I was able to work out a payment plan, and I got a 2nd job to help pay what I owed. The one glitch was that my 2nd job’s earnings bumped me into a higher tax bracket, so I had to pay even more!

    At the end of 2011, Saturn will return to conjoin my Neptune, and I can easily keep myself awake at night imagining what fresh hell it has in store for me. I’m now medically disabled and on Social Security Disability Insurance. (I’ve also always thought insurance was ruled by the 8th.)

    Anyway, I just hope one major painful encounter with the government is all I have to endure for this lifetime! ;-)

    • Oh, my, Colleen, how terrifying it must have been. The IRS surely doesn’t play. One reason they were disposed to negociate with me is that I had a very good tax man (CPA) of several years who was known to them. If I’d tried to handle it myself, it would doubtlessly wound up as a disaster. Here’s hoping your transits aren’t about that. AT least you have a good record of having paid them off in the past. Donna

  22. I always found it easier to advise others that it was to figure out my own finances. I where one way glasses when it comes to things like that, lol. This is inspiring me to sit down and take a fresh look at my own horoscope again in terms of how I earn, spend and book keep. Thank you.

    I have a Virgo ruled 2nd with no planets in it, nothing in the 8th and Venus in Taurus just inside the 10th on my MC. Every astrologer I come in contact with that sees my chart thinks that finances must be one of my strong points, that I am careful with money and earning well. I am so foggy and impractical and forgetful about the subject (even though I grew up in a business oriented family) that I sometimes don’t even know what part of the wild finance jungle in my life I should begin trying to tame.

    Survival has been a struggle all my adult life, sometimes not knowing how to feed my kids or pay the rent. The feeling is of everyone else knowing a language that I seem to have trouble learning. My deep instinct is always that it shouldn’t MATTER. Posessions seem transient and somewhere on the perifery of my consciousness. So what if I lost my wedding ring. I love the man to bits, our decades of marriage is solid without chunks of metal to prove it. That kind of thing.

    I love people. I love doing things for them and even forget to bill them for services rendered, or do everything out of love because it seems so wierd to charge for something that is so much fun. I get drawn into the creative process and forget the structure needed to hold it together. There is this deep feeling that if I do everything for free they will all love me and take care of me. I have found this in a lot o firneds who are astrologers. I wonder if it is a throw back to when the likes of us WOULD have been carried by the community or financed by a king or something. Where have all the kings gone when you need them!

    What has helped me before was, like you, to look at the 2nd/8th axis and take Pisces into account (don’t EVER borrow money with a Piscean 8th! It is like leprechaun gold and turns into straw before you can blink). The victim poor me, kind but starving martyr in the attic thing is what is often forgotten with this axis.

    I also went through the whole chart house by house, aspect by aspect from the point of view of getting my finances into order. Each have something to add to the subject as a whole. The things learned then, though, all skedaddled and are hiding in the money mess again these days. Absolutely time to sit down and rethink. Again, thanks!


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