Posted by: Donna Cunningham | January 5, 2013

Saturn in Scorpio—Should Auld Acquaintance Be Forgot?

©1-5-2013 by Donna Cunningham, MSW

This is a time of year when we naturally reflect on the past year, what we learned from it, and where we go from here, and this is especially true when we’re also having important Saturn transits. We often find ourselves in challenging situations that mirror situations and people that have been important during past Saturn cycles—7, 14, 21, or 28 years ago.

 In fact, it is common for the very same people we were involved with during those cycles —or people eerily like them—to suddenly show up, expecting to pick up again at the very same place.

Unfortunately, with transiting Saturn now in Scorpio, those reunions are not always happy ones, and they do not necessarily end well. As is likely with Saturn in that sign, these may have been people who were high maintenance and involved in huge drama at the time we knew them.

If so, unless they have been involved, heart and soul, in healing their wounds, there’s every likelihood that things in their lives are worse than ever. For many such people, time has not given them more wisdom, but instead the patterns have crystallized. If we ourselves have worked hard to grow, we may find such reunions painful and even intolerable.

I always say that wherever Saturn goes, it takes itself along. By that, I mean that the house, sign, and aspects of natal Saturn are reflected in Saturn transits and in how we experience them and handle them, regardless of the house it is now transiting. Old issues related to natal Saturn are likely to be coming up again.

For me, my natal Saturn is in the 11th house, the house of friends. What I find myself reflecting on of late is what my friendships mean now and what they have meant to me over the years. Suddenly, people who were a big part of my life during my mid-30s are hunting me down—er, I mean hunting me up— on the Internet and calling me, fully expecting to pick up where we left off.

In each case, they have talked at high speed and high intensity for an hour or so about the dramas and misfortunes that have befallen them since we last spoke. Not once did they pause for breath or show any interest in my life. They all looked me up on the Internet, and when you do that, you see a long list of books and articles I have written. Not a word from them, amidst the diatribe, to say, “Good going, Girl.”

And, yes, I could’ve asserted myself and talked to them about my life, but frankly all I cared about by the end of the hour was getting them off the phone. I knew that if I let them get a foot in the door I’d be listening to that high drama every day for the rest of my life, and it would be all about them.

commentsgreatdiscussionAnd so I have been given to reflect lately on how very different my friendships are at 70 than they were at 35, how happy and peaceful and sustaining they are. Yes, at our age, we do have our challenges and difficulties to deal with and, yes, we do support and help one another through them, but that’s not what our connection is all about. We share our thoughts and reflections and have interests in common that do not hinge on such high drama. I am blessed with bright, funny, wise, and insightful friends.

What about you, Readers? Where was Saturn in your chart natally, where is it now, and how does this transit reflect patterns from the past? What can you learn from these mini life reviews? Share your thoughts with us in the comment section below this article. And check out the comments from other readers–good sharing!

Past articles about Saturn on this blog:

Recent Articles on Toxic Relationships:

Articles on this Blog about Difficult Transits:


  1. Hello;

    mine is in the 8th house, 0º Cancer.

    It now transits my 12th.

    I wish I had more time (but, especially, more discipline) to write about astrology. To really write about it – and Learn more just by the simple act of Writing about it. I’m thinking about that.

    Welcome back to your blog. I hope you keep posting. And have a great 2013.

  2. OMG Donna! This is good & THANK YOU! I have noticed that one of my favourite Scorpios, Hilary Clinton (2-Scorpio) has been affected by Saturn’s move into Scorpio. She is being made to slow down. Many of us Boomers have Saturn in Scorpio and are or will be experiencing the return.

    In my case, natal Saturn in Scorpio is in my 5th house. It squares Pluto and trines my Angles. Transiting Saturn is also entering my 5th. It is easy for me to experience fear & guilt around my children. (now adults)
    Donna, I am going to take your message to heart. I will try to employ the older & wiser Saturn ‘wisdom’ and not encourage ‘fear’ Saturn take hold. I will try to be ‘patient’ (Saturn) with myself and to ALLOW ‘wisdom’ Saturn to guide me through.
    also: You are sooo right about the drama friends. And it’s addictive.

    • Thanks, VT. I have missed blogging like this so much–and the feedback from readers. Alas, I am totally committed to writing my book on stelliums and have to save my Mercury energy for that writing. But the topic of this post has been swirling around in my head for a couple of weeks, and I couldn’t ignore it any more. Donna

      PS. I read that Hillary had a blood clot incident like this years ago, while she and Bill were in the White House. I wonder if the issues and the transits were the same, and very Scorpionic. She does have a triple conjunction in Scorpio in the 12th and a Scorpio Ascendant, at least in the AM version of her chart, which makes more sense than the one with Gemini Rising.

      • This is quite profound! Hilary’s leg clot was in 1998. I am not sure of the month. Bill was impeached in Dec. 1998 so this would be the height of (Lewinsky/Kenneth Star) Impeachment scandal and it’s resulting public shame & powerlessness for her.

        If we go with the 8:02 AM (Scorpio Rising) birth time, then Saturn would have been crossing her 6th house cusp (July) and opposing her 12th house Scorpio Sun!
        Ha! This all makes sense with the 12th house components.

        1st clot: Saturn opposed her Sun, 1998.
        2nd clot: Saturn conjoined her sun, 2012

      • Great analysis, VT! Fascinating stuff. I wonder what she’ll do now–alas, I don’t think she has another presidential run in her, too physically demanding, but she sure has a wealth of experience. Donna

  3. Donna, I experienced a similar phone call last night, and it was exhausting. I think your message also applies to friendships that have run their course.

    When you said ‘unless they’ve been involved, heart & soul, in healing their wounds’ you nailed it. Patterns ARE crystallized and situations DO end up being worse than ever. Growth requires effort, and being expected to share in a friend’s drama when they have no desire to actually learn or heal becomes intolerable.
    I’ll give this more thought as it relates to Saturn.
    thanks again V.

    • Wow–friendships that have run their course! With Venus conjunct Saturn in the 11th, that’s one lesson I still haven’t figured out.

      I get suckered back in, and nothing that caused the rift in the first place has changed. You don’t want to hear those stories and I don’t want to tell them. Brrr.

  4. Saturn is now 1 degree from my 7th house. I have Sat Rx in 14 Scorpio in the 7th, trining my 3rd house 11 Cancer Sun. Lots of other stuff going on now….pluto opp my sun, Uranus square my moon. I’ve been having to take another look at creating stronger boundaries in my relationships.(both family and friends)..and learning that it’s a Good Thing! Codependent Cancer in transformative recovery! 🙂 2013 will be a growth and transformative year!

  5. I have Saturn in Cap, 12th house. I refuse to be invisible anymore. People that just want to talk about themselves, only get in touch when their kid has some event that requires a gift, emails from me that have actual news and events happening that go unanswered, bah.

    My address book was cleaned out severely and it felt good to erase those names! If I’m going to be alone, I’d like to do it without the extra aggravation of zombie friends. Maybe with the recognition of this, I can start seeing something new, something mutual within others.

    • Rosa, I remember a period in my life much like what you’re going through now. I was attending the Adult Children of Alcoholics 12-step program, and I decided to free myself from one-way relationships and do something different. (In fact, now that I think of it, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was when I cut loose some of the very people who have been in touch lately!)

      Well, I went through a period of being alone and nearly friendless for a while, but was smart enough to know that if I just rushed into new friendships, they would turn out to be just like the old ones. So I declared that I was in a period of therapeutic isolation, and after a while the lonliness wasn’t that much worse than a tooth ache. After a while, maybe six months or so, I was drawn to a new kind of person and made new and better friends. Hang in there! Donna Cunningham

      • My experience echoes Donna’s as to ACA. This group changed my life. I managed to break away from my impossible mother and start living life for me as a result of attending those group meetings.

      • Come to think of it I went to ACA during my first saturn return ( I have sat separating conj moon by 10 degrees so it hit my sat first and I ended my meeting going when It passed natal moon. It kept me from repeating those patterns and to forgive and move on.

      • Very interesting, Uhanepono, thanks for sharing that. I wonder if I’m having the first Saturn return of when I joined ACOA. think it was about 1978. Donna

  6. Hi, Donna, first off I should mention that I have been studying astrology since I was 21 and your books were a part of my self teaching. I am not an astrologer, but a commercial artist. Astrology is how I seem to observe life and I needed to know what the language was!
    My 0’Scorpio ascendant assures me Saturn has been passing by!

    My 8th house contains my Sun/Saturn conjunction in 16 Gemini. I’m kind of one of the Saturn people. I will be 70 in June . I also have a stellium of planets running across my 0’Leo 10th house cusp (Jupiter 25 Cancer, MC, Venus, Pluto , moon, north node and Chiron bringing up all of them). And now I have no work just as happened between june 1990 and 1995. This time I at least recognize the pattern! And plenty of drama too.

    On my 40th birthday in 1983 I was fired from my job as a fashion illustrator (as well as having my dog die.) 29.5 years later (last month) I watched as my daughter’s new boss tried to goad and humiliate her into quitting.

    Having seen the same pattern happen to me then I told her not to take the bait! She didn’t, and it was her boss who had to apologize to her instead, and the CEO told everyone in a speech that she was the glue that held the company together. If it hadn’t happened to me I would never have seen the pattern…and she might be sitting home with no job.

    I do believe Saturn helps when we separate our ego from our path of grace. Thanks for returning to writing your blog….

  7. I have natal Saturn in cancer in the 6th with transiting Saturn at the end of the 8th house. Over the last few months, I have been trying to finally come to terms with my 8 year old daughter’s learning disabilities.

    I lost my job 18 months ago and after after years of denial about my daughter’s issues I was forced to face them so began concentrating on her as well as focusing on my health (I quit smoking and exercise at the gym frequently). She will always be disabled but I can now appreciate her for the wonderful little person she is instead of being bitter that she is not a regular kid.

    To say I am a totally different person now is an understatement and I am grateful for this. Also, I am at the end of the Pluto square Pluto transit which was within orb as I lost my job and was ‘stripped’ of any illusions. With natal pluto in the 8th, the transformation began then and is being refined by Saturn now.

    Wonderfully insightful article as usual Donna….

  8. Hi Donna,

    My Saturn is also in the 11th. I have few but loyal, smart, understanding friends. Does having Saturn in the 11th point to better friends in old age? That’s something to look forward to.

    • Having Saturn in the 11th myself and being 70, yes, I’d agree we might just save the best for last in terms of friendship. But we don’t necessarily have to wait that long if we learn to choose wisely and not to hold onto a destructive friendship out of a sense of duty.

      The best, most wonderful part of Saturn in the 11th was that when i was young, I had such wise and loving older people who befriended me and acted as a mentor. Since I’m the older one myself now, I have such gifted young friends that I am a sort of mentor for, and who look after me when I’m not doing well physically. It can represent an age difference in which both generations find love and respect. Donna

  9. hi Donna, it’s so awesome that you’re blogging again, even if it’s just this one time. I have natal saturn in the 6th house and transit saturn is firmly into my 7th house now, with the recent death of my husband occurring when it was still in my 6th.

    So here I am, definitely needing more (and new) friends but with Saturn in the 7th, I know it’s not going to come fast or easy. So I am reaching out in different ways, taking classes, learning to be an english language tutor, we’ll see what else pops up.

    • So hard, Mimi, but wherever transiting Saturn goes, it can also indicate work or a job, so maybe new work will help you make solid contacts too. Donna

      • honey, I am retired! 🙂 not going back to work. but like I said, I am open to volunteering.

  10. Natal Saturn in Aries in the 7th house; Saturn is currently transiting the second house of my chart. As a Capricorn, I was lucky enough to marry the most frugal Libra ever ( he has Taurus rising and a stellium of Virgo planets).

    We have been headstrong and proud about being financially independent throughout our lives, and now we finally have saved up some money to “green up” our old farmhouse by installing solar panels, reconfiguring the water system, etc. Saturn in Scorpio ‘s focused energy might be beneficial for this kind of project, if we can just find the right contractors for the job.
    I am so glad that you are posting again! Happy New Year!

  11. Hi Donna,

    Natal Saturn retrograde in the 5th house in Gemini. Definitely had lots of difficulties with dad. Great blog!

  12. Hi all, MC @16 ♎, Natal saturn @ 5 ♏/sextile ☉ @9♍/and ♂ @3 ♑. (Also should mention that saturn made a conj to ♆ and ♀ @ 24,25 ♎ respectively before passing on to saturn @5 ♏. This period of time has brought new encounters and solidified the manifesting of ideas and hopes as it had before last time (saturn return).

    The commonalities: I went through an intense learning curve this and last return which payed off in new skill sets and a deepening of my aesthetic gestalt. The challenges were felt as refreshing and creative opportunities and not more than I could or would want to bear. I got/get up in the am with fresh insights and eager to employ them. I found/find I have the patience to implement those ideas too.

    The people in my life both times have been mentors and supportive friends who wanted more of my new output and gave/give me a big boost to carry on and who had/have provided me with avenues to further my endeavors. Both times aesthetic venues opened up to share my efforts. I have not so far had any actual people from that time come out of the under the floorboards. They are mostly new people playing that same role in the way the old ones did.

    The big difference this time is that I am a far less troubled person, willing to hold my palms face in a receiving of mana mudra. I believe this is part due to a prog. ☿ retrograde passing over radix ♄ a few years back and a prog ☉ presently sitting on top of that same radix (and transiting) saturn. Saturn has almost always been my friend and helps me to manifest when I might otherwise drift in numinous ideation and perspicacious dharma-bumming. well hammock warming anyway.

    Saturn touches just about every part of my chart for a few glorious years of seeding-furturing and bearing or otherwise birthing physical aesthetic goodies. I will relish these brief salad days before returning to laurel resting!!

  13. palms face up I meant to say. (interesting slip!)

  14. Donna, Happy New Year!
    If I was on a phone call with you, I would LOVE to hear all about your life! It sounds so fascinating! I have missed your insightful and witty columns and commentary so I am very happy yo see this topic.

    I have Pluto/Sun conjunct within less than a degree in 11 in Leo, which gives my Sun a Scorpionic flavor. My relationship to my friends who have much Scorpio (one has Sun/Mars/Mercury in 6, another has Scorp Asc with Neptune Rising in Scorp) has changed of late. We have grown very distant and seem to be heading in very different directions.

    The first one has just closed down psychologically, hangs out only with family and friends she has known for over 30 years and is on such a strict financial plan and such an austere diet that she is just a drag to be around. I’m not a spendthrift but being around a person who won’t go anywhere and just eats lettuce is a big drag. The second person is involved with a very controlling guru and mentions his opinion on everything from soup to nuts. A third person has Venus/Mercury/Mars in Scorp and has all of a sudden become involved in very right wing politics. Jeese Louise.

    My best pal right now has very little Scorp influence.

    In my own chart, Saturn is in Virgo conjunct Mercury in 12. It is now transiting my 2nd House. I am paying down debt rapidly and saving lots of money. I have had my job for over 7 years but without any benefits. In July, my job added full benefits and I doubled my salary!
    I am also working on my own personal spiritual development and values .(values – also a 2nd house issue) as well as my own personal interests.

    • Good to hear from you, MEL0! The passage of time–and using it productively–is a theme I hear from you, no big drama, but progress from hard work. Donna

      • That’s true. Hard work, indeed. My unit at work has been on OT constantly since July 2012. All that OT $$$ are good for the pocketbook but rather exhausting. No drama, just slow, steady hard work and the fruits of that labor.

  15. Hey Donna,
    Very interesting article as always. My first time in and new to astrology. Received book, “Playing the Acension Game” by Diana Stone in yesterdays mail. It’s a couple of inches thick! Hoping it saves me from this lunacy 🙂 Anyway, N Saturn 4th with N Chiron, N Ceres & N Pars Fortune. All in 4th and in Pisces, except pars Fortune which is in Aries.

    S Saturn is in 5th with S N. Node. & S Vertex. The solar 5th is on my N 12th.
    My N 12th is in Scorpio and has Neptune 19 degrees. My ASC 21 Scorpio.

    I’ve got a grand mutable cross and my ASC was hit on Nov 2012 during an eclipse. The past 7 years have turned my life inside out and the current set of circumstances are formidable to say the least. I’m bright, hard working, have always strived to live with honor, courage, to be a good decision maker and even I don’t know what to do. Issues that I dealt with 27 years ago were familial power struggles… breaking free from an overbearing mother’s apronstrings. She enlisted the help of an elder half sister, who had been the black sheep due to truant or deviant behavior. Over the next 20+ years, she’s “redeemed” herself on my back by stepping in-line and doing mothers bidding. No challenge of opinion whatsoever and became the “stepford favorite”.

    I want the RIGHT to be the person that the GOOD LORD designed. The right ro be me… to more, no less. And, not to be dominated by this woman called mother. She is manipulative. Plays the victim. Weilds influence and turns her side of the family against me. I’m the “bad” seed and just like my father. It’s hypocritical because her father wasn’t a prince. Or many of the others pointing their fingers at me. Dysfunction 101.

    What’s interesting NOW, is that the issue of power, control and dominance expanded BEYOND my family and involves government — my employer — and my residence — the bank, as well. They are ALL involved in the same affair. Corruption, greed, power, dominance, control, manipulation and lies.


  16. My second Saturn return just passed, now it’s conjunct Venus soon conjunct my retro Mercury, all this action in the 9th house. Then later on in the 10th Saturn will conjunct my 24Scorp Sun and spark a grand trine. I don’t know what it is all about, but with no earth in my chart I’m guessing this Saturn in Scorpio is a good grounding?

    After my 1st Saturn return, I had carpal tunnel surgery on my left hand. Just last month after 2nd Saturn return, I had trigger thumb surgery on my right hand. The success of the 1st helped me to go for the recent; although I’m still healing the painful triggering is gone!

    A major life changing event of this Saturn in Scorpio is another tale; we’re in the 3rd or 4th chapter. More later….. good night and thanks Donna for this blog!

    • Donna, your Saturn conjunct Neptune information proved to be a solid stepping stone back in Dec 2011, and I’m grateful. For well over a year, I’ve thought about sharing the complicated developments of how Saturn presented a huge change in my life and my family.

      Wondering how much to share here and attempting a short story, I’ll begin by stating my 54 year old developmentally disabled brother is the tenant in our condo. For 40 years he and our parents had been across the state 250 miles away. The state support system has been under assault for the past few years and as a result neglect and abandonment were becoming the mainstay for my brother. During our Christmas 2011 visit it became crystal clear that his situation had to change or he’d die soon. A year ago it was a crisis phase and I knew this was my Saturn in Scorpio challenge; with 4 planets in Scorpio, a long haul transformation.

      Early April 2012 we packed up a rental van and moved him across the state. He is now 8 miles away instead of 250 miles. With him being a special needs adult everything takes longer and moves slowly so we’re still in transition and making good progress. A different anti-seizure medication has been extremely beneficial. He’s dropped some weight, he’s now 280 lbs and getting healthier. He has Libra rising, so this enormous move had Saturn not only in his 1st house but directly opposite his tight Aries triple conjunction of sun, moon and mercury. It was exact January 2012, just before he decided to move.

      My Leo husband is 8 months older than my brother and they get along wonderfully like brothers; all 3 of us have an Aries moon. For decades, my husband & I had a quiet life with no kids or pets; now we have my mentally disabled brother virtually living with us. I manage 2 households, oversee his medical needs and independent living supports.

      Last January the ‘Auld Acquaintance’ regarding my younger brother was embraced. Our 90 year old parents are still relatively healthy and independent; they remain 250 miles away and are relieved of the incredible stress and worry about their youngest son. The Christmas 2012 visit was joyful and so vastly different from Christmas 2011. With a happy heart, I remain wary as Saturn rumples on through Scorpio.

  17. Great article Donna!

    I’m Leo ( sun, mercury saturn conjunct 3rd house, opposie my aquarius moon lol) with Saturn transiting my 5th house getting ready to visit my 12 degree Uranus (which is opposite my chiron). Not to mention he’s sextiling my natal Saturn in the 3rd.

    For years there has been a story around my children and I. Specifically, my oldest son. He’s very rebellious (stellium in Virgo) and hyper critical, in a nutshell you can’t him anything, and if you fo he has to think its his idea. Although, I believe he’s harder on himself then I could ever be. We’ve been in and our for sometime now and have recently reunited. I’ve had to learn to live in our relationship differently because of the fact that he is an uranian child. It’s been difficult but I’m working at it.

    My vertex is also in Scorpio at 22 having an affair with the transiting north node. Needless to say, I’ve been sucking in all kinds of uniquely interesting folks, especially older men.

    This transit has been liberating yet restrictive. Mainly, because it’s forcing me to grow up and deal with things I’ve been avoiding head on ( cancer rising, I take the long way around everything or my pisces midheaven avoids it all costs). More importantly, the veil has been lifted and I’m able to see situations without the fog. My abilities have grown also. Spiritually, I’m more connected to spirit and can maneuver through the other side with ease. As a psychic /medium I would have to work a little to get information, now it flows with ease. I love it. I’m so grateful for these delicious opportunities. If only, I could glide through my 7th house Pluto transit a little easier. 🙂

    Again, thanks for a great article


  18. Great article Donna!

    I’m Leo ( sun, mercury Saturn conjunct 3rd house, opposite my Aquarius moon lol) with Saturn transiting my 5th house getting ready to visit my 12 degree Uranus (which is opposite my chiron). Not to mention he’s sextiling my natal Saturn in the 3rd.

    For years there has been a story around my children and I. Specifically, my oldest son. He’s very rebellious (stellium in Virgo) and hyper critical, in a nutshell you can’t him anything, and if you do he has to think its his idea. Although, I believe he’s harder on himself then I could ever be. We’ve been in and out for sometime now and have recently reunited. I’ve had to learn to live in our relationship differently because of the fact that he is an Uranus child. It’s been difficult but I’m working at it.

    My vertex is also in Scorpio at 22 having an affair with the transiting north node. Needless to say, I’ve been sucking in all kinds of uniquely interesting folks, especially older men.

    This transit has been liberating yet restrictive. Mainly, because it’s forcing me to grow up and deal with things I’ve been avoiding head on ( cancer rising, I take the long way around everything or my Pisces mid-heaven avoids it all costs). More importantly, the veil has been lifted and I’m able to see situations without the fog. My abilities have grown also. Spiritually, I’m more connected to spirit and can maneuver through the other side with ease. As a psychic /medium I would have to work a little to get information, now it flows with ease. I love it. I’m so grateful for these delicious opportunities. If only, I could glide through my 7th house Pluto transit a little easier. 🙂

    Again, thanks for a great article


    • Thanks, Christy. Perhaps my new ebooklet, The Stellium Tool Kit, would help you understand your son’s stellium better. Read about it in a recent post. Donna

  19. Had my first direct hit of my second Saturn Return on Dec 18, 2012. Saturn conj Mars in Scorpio straddling my decscendant. I spent November clearing out the contents of, and getting rid of, my storage locker I had been paying for for 21 years. (Hah… since the separating Saturn sq Saturn!) Still have two more direct hits coming up in the next 9 months…

    • oh… forgot to add, my wife helped a LOT in doing this… (Dsc)

    • Great use of that Scorpio energy! What I’ve often noticed in going through and purging closets and things is that each item I pick up has memories–and often emotions–attached to them.

      Often it is the memory and the attached emotions that I’ve been hanging onto and needing to process and purge. It’s about a stage of my life that is coming to a close. (I should write a post about that too–clutter-clearing and closure!) Donna

      • Hi Donna….right now I’m consolodating two old rolodex files into one…. when I pick up a card with someone’s name/add/phone # I get strong feelings about the person, why they’re in my life and whether or not to let them go.

        Tough. I’m a Cancer that holds on to too many things/people for sentimental reasons and am trying to clutter-clear at the moment. Yes, as you put it “needing to process and purge.”

      • yes… exacty!

  20. Wow! From all the comments, I see there has been pent-up demand for your posts! Welcome back, Donna! Good to see you here again.

    Well, I have Natal SA in Leo in 12th in Leo conjunct Pluto, sextile SU conj NE in Libra in 2nd and square MA in Sco in the 3rd. So, for me, the Saturn cycles are varied. Mostly I move or someone dies. Saturn was square my natal VE in Sco (conj. IC on the 4th house side) exactly the day my mother passed (Jan 2007). That year’s solar return (Oct. 4 2006) Saturn was also square VE.

    Otherwise, I have either had major financial problems (with a sextile opportunity escape hatch) or moved. I bought my first house in 1984.

    This year with PL square my SU and SA once again approaching the IC, I expect news regarding my 95-year-old father. I hope not. But, with other aspects also in play (both progressed and transiting), I am bracing myself.

  21. Hello Donna. I really enjoyed your article on past Friendships coming-up with Saturn’s Transit. I’m in the midst of my second Saturn return, so I really relate to your article. Saturn is one degree away from an exact conjunction to Neptune, in my 5th house (Libra). My last year has been an examination and clarification of my tendency to accomodate people’s dramas; who show absolutely no interest whatsoever in my Values, Goals or struggles.

    This last year has been a brutal awakening to me. I do not want to spend another minute on those kind of relationships; I’m fortunate to have a couple of really committed Friendships; people who are Mature and sensitive, with whom I feel able to relate with in a most authentic manner.

  22. Donna,

    My Saturn is in the 9th house and my partner’s in his 8th, but we had just recently been discussing the same phenomenon you report. It was really evident at recent family holiday parties.

    So let me hazard a guess is that the narcissism you’re observing in people you haven’t seen in years has less to do with your natal Saturn placement and more to do with the spread of the self-obsessed Social Media culture where people no longer interact, but assume that everyone they know wants to know every tiny detail of their lives without any reciprocity.

  23. Amen. The “healing their wounds” part struck a chord. I am going through a similar period of life, though Saturn is transiting my 4th (issues with mom & home), I am realizing that I have given a lot of the friends that I have met over the last 7-8 years and have not gotten in return. I am tired of always being the one to “help” and when I need it it isn’t there. I am learning to stand my ground and demand equal treatment (Moon in Libra).

    Your blog is great and don’t let those friends continue to be involved in your life without equal interest in yours.

  24. Well, I’m feeling a little stupid. I realized after writing my previous comment that I’m been out of my second Saturn return for a long time! It seems a fitting mistake, since I’ve felt stalled ever since Saturn crossed it’s natal position in my chart in 2011 !

    Apparently, it’s effects persist for a long time; at least for me ! My second Saturn return coinsided with a move to Mexico, which has been challenging in more ways than I’ve room to write. At the moment I’m in a Jupiter return which I’d hoped might coinside with some optimism and maybe some progress with regard to situational glitches and my current financial binds; so far, I’m just not clueing-in, try as I might. I feel stuck in Limbo !

    • It’s never too late to process and get the good out of a Saturn return. There’s a lot of material on the blog I and Mimi and CJ created last year for people with Saturn conjunct Neptune in Libra to process that difficult natal conjunction and share what happened and what they’ve learned. It’s called Donna

  25. Welcome back Donna,
    I’ve waited for a new post, glad to see this one! It seems very timely for me.
    Natally, my Saturn is Sag, Rx in 6th, it trines my 2nd house Stellium in Leo (Merc, UR, Ve, & Mars) and squares my Leo Pluto, plus my Pisces MC & Moon.
    Now T Saturn is hitting that Stellium with a square while passing through my 5th. It’s also trining my Cancer AC, & Pisces MC & 9th Moon

    I see squares as a signal for energy or hard work, and setting trivial things aside in order to get ahead, I started school twice under T Saturn’s to my Stellium, living with 72% less income, and in much smaller houses. I think the trines may work providing some help with the public (Water Moon), and some success( Trined a Water AC) with my next publishing endeavor (9th & Water MC) .
    We’ll see.
    Please consider a few more posts, Donna. We’ve missed you.

    • Thanks, EJ, I’ve missed blogging too. Donna

  26. It’s very interesting, indeed, that you would write about people talking about themselves while being so thoughtless not to ask about you. I have been up against the same only involving new people I have met recently. After losing my husband during the first sweep of my second Saturn return (on my birthday at that) two years ago, (Saturn/Mars/Neptune Libra T-square in the 8th – my first Saturn return entered in the birth of my first child) the only thing I could do during severe depression was to join an astrological group (natal Sun in the 11th). I met a few people, but I find they only talk about themselves and their own problems.

    I spent so much of my life living with kidney disease (dialysis and transplantation) and have had to heal myself emotionally that I don’t want to heal others’ (relatively) minor problems. Problem is with no friends or family around I feel bound to be tied to their selfish 3-hour phone calls. With Saturn in Scorpio now (my Venus in Scorpio, my Saturn in Libra ruler of the kidneys, but Saturn ruling my 12th), I am fearful of possibly losing my transplanted kidney given to me by my daughter. I want to purge these people, but they just keep calling.

    They think they have problems? I just want Saturn in Scorpio to go away!

    • Three-hour phone calls to someone who’s been so ill? Dear God, what is wrong with them? I’m sure with so many medical expenses, your budget must be tight, but it would be worth it to invest in caller ID!! Donna

    • wow, Anita, we are “kin” my first saturn return produced my second child, and my beloved husband died at the end of my second saturn return. Spooky that. how awful that he died on your birthday.
      You don’t need to talk to ANYONE for 3 hours if you don’t want to!

    • Anita, I feel for you. I have Stage 4 Chronic Kidney Disease.
      I haven’t lost anyone close to me recently and I can’t begin to imagine how you feel.

      But I know from my personal experience how exhausting kidney disease is and how part of the feeling from experiencing such an illness is a desire to rid yourself of petty complainers and drama queens. You just don’t have the energy to deal with such energy vamps and their narcissism even if you wanted to.

      Part of what has happened to me since this diagnosis (I am 62) is the crystallization of knowing my time and energy for my life mission might be more limited than I thought and I need to concentrate on God’s plan for me while I still have the energy and mobility to do so. Prayers to you for your health, healing and happiness.

  27. My natal Saturn is Rx in Pisces in my 6th house, conjunct Chiron, trine Neptune in my 2nd, directly opposing Pluto/Uranus in my 12th house and squaring my nodes. That big opposition is totally unaspected to my personal planets, the only gateway to this dimension is an exact Neptune/11th house Leo Mercury square, not the most stable fundament, but that’s what I got to work with.

    28 years ago, at 19, Saturn in my 2nd house, I moved from the countryside to Copenhagen, to study classical singing. I also lived out the wild gay life of the 80’s and had my first astrological consultation. It is of course much easier to predict the past than the future, but all three seem to be coming together again. The big difference is of course that Pluto has moved to Capricorn, stabilising the deep cleansing of this transit. At that time, I contracted HIV, later on lost my voice when I almost died at 32, and I was totally scared of all the visions that came up from deep below once I started getting acquainted with the outer dimensions.

    But I live, I have a ridiculously strong health and constitution for a chronic patient, I have my voice back, I can use it to heal myself and my audience. My experiences and my weird fantasies, which I enjoy to fictionalise and make accessible to a general public can support other people on their ways, and I very much hope that Saturn in 2nd house now will help stabilise my financial situation. It is a comforting fact that JK Rowling, born a month before me, has the same 2nd house Neptune…

    • Your struggle inspires me, Mads. Out of such dark passages as these come such beautiful light!

      Is J. k. Rowling’s birth time known now? I only had a solar chart for her. Donna

      • I found it here, don’t know if it’s trustworthy, but I like it since her ascendant is in casu exactly conjunct mine:) I had a lot of support from your colleague Joyce Mason, who asked me to write a big article on singing, sex and sickness, a fantastic process for me, you can find it here

      • Hmm. I see there’s no birthtime source,a big omission, but I’ve gotten some good birth times there before, so it’s worth a shot.

        Joyce Mason is a very old astrology pal of mine and she really does good work. Congrats on the article. Donna

  28. Nice to read you again Donna !!! natal saturn 3 deg in scorpio in my fifth…so yes in my second return…my daughter was born during my first return, we have conjunct saturns..our relationship improved immensely this past year..she put away her resentment (scorpio ascendant ..big feat ;)) so am enjoying the closeness !! alas my son (first born, 5th house also) was in a first of many years of sexual abuse from a close neighbor at my first return..but i did not find out until my Chiron return (n Chiron is in cap in 8th,the only earth in my chart) (also have sun conjunct pluto) after his wedding(he lives far) he wrote me a big letter, informing me of the abuse..saying he was dealing with it…but that i had been a terrible Mom and wanted nothing to do with me( we had always been close..but he was always like a parent to me more than a son(nat saturn in cancer) ..I was shocked, to make this short i held him in love and respected his took about a year..and everthing patched up after his son was born..and he even asked me to go look after my grandson for a couple of months while they looked for a full time baby sitter..and every thing seemed fine..i’ve been out there a coule of times after..i went out there summer of 2011 for 3 weeks to visit and brought along his younger sister as a surprise…now out of the blue this past july…he wrote me another very mean letter saying i was a rotten Mom …etc..and wanted nothing to do with me..not to contact him in any way..his son almost being the age he was abused …and i believe he also told his Dad who suddenly unfriended me on Facebook, and stopped all contact …. I am ok with the no contact from my son (his Dad ,no big loss, just find it immature..) ..
    i respect my son’s wish and wrap him in love daily…he never obtained justice or closure..(the neighbor denied everything and died shortly after) i believe he is getting his revenge or justice by punishing me..which is ok..i love him dearly ! and he knows this..after all i should have been there for him and wasn’ in with a daughter out with a son…and unfortunately no contact with my 2 grandchildren…also no creativity flowing………….living with my elderly Mom now might have something to do with it..

    • Dear God, Louise, what a painful thing to go through. You are handling it bravely and spiritually. When confronted with a relationship impasse like that, I try talking to the other person’s Higher Self, as it knows your soul and their’s an responds from that level. Sometimes it takes time. Donna

  29. Yep…

    I am having Saturn transit my first house, to the degree one sign away from my natal Saturn in the second. It has just transited my natal Pluto, and will be doing it once again during retrogrades. It’s powerful for sure.

  30. so did the number of responses surprise you? 🙂

    • Oh, Mimi, talk about people from the past coming back, but in a positive way. So many of the readers who’ve shared on this blog before commented and also proved to me in no uncertain terms that I have to get back to blogging. I sure have missed it, but will have to juggle my writing time judiciously or I’ll never get my stellium book done before the NORWAC conference I’m speaking at in May. Donna

      • Donna you have no idea how many people you have helped or how much we have missed you. Your information about Pluto and recovery are what got me through some very difficult times in my life.

      • Many thanks! It’s feedback like this that keeps me going at 70. Donna

  31. Wow did I need to read this. My Saturn is in my 11th too. I find that my 30 yr old daughter is now acting like her father. He was a 1948 Leo (Sun/Saturn/Pluto) tightly conjunct. A battering alcoholic, I left him after about 7 yrs of marriage. He was a fixture in the kids lives but kept telling them things like he and I were going to get back together etc. (not). He died of cancer almost 10 yrs ago. I feel like he is still around and I do not think his 1st wife has recovered from his death.

    My Leo daughter looks like him physically. She has four young chilldren. Recently I had to move out of state. due to financial reasons, not because I wanted to. She had a fit, cut me out of her and the kids lives etc. Finally got to see the kids after many many months. She is smoking and hanging out at the bar, just like her dad. She also has the Saturn/Pluto conjunction in Libra. I find her behavior as unreasonable and baffling as I did with her dad.

    • It’s interesting that–husband and daughter both with Pluto/Saturn conjunctions. Aspects often run in families, and it’s part of what holds them together. Donna

      • Donna, if you have Saturn in the same sign and degree as your mother-in-law, does that create a strong bond whether you want to or not?

      • Certainly. For one thing, you were born at the time of her Saturn return, so it says she has a sense of responsibility to you as a family member. It creates a kind of parental link, whether either of you really wants it or not.

        (I was born at the time of my father’s Saturn return, and he was born at the time of HIS father’s Saturn return, so all 3 of us have Saturn at the same degree. I think I was intended to be the oldest son. I didn’t have the right equipment, but did the best I could.)

        Since you both have Saturn in Scorpio, not the easiest sign, I suspect she sees in you some of the tough times she had herself growing up, so she gets anxious worrying about you a bit. Donna

  32. My friend of 50+ years just had her Third scorpio saturn return on Christmas day 2012. She drives, goes to the theatre, and looks and feels great!

    • neat! Very few peopole make it to their 3rd Saturn return, at, what 88 or so. But those that do are people with solid Saturns. Donna

  33. Hi Donna,
    to me that Venus conjunct Saturn indicates Art talent. Do you do Art besides astrology?
    I have that in the 10th house quincunx the moon in Aquarius in the 5th house. Venus/Saturn in the 10th in Cancer. I am a artist for one thing.
    With Saturn in Scorpio transiting my second house money issues have come up for sure. This is squaring natal pluto also in the 10th. Guess what….my checks from State Govt have gotten lost or disappeared to date and I can make no contact ( except with robots) to find out whats going on. On the otherhand a long standing debt owed to Indian culture has been somewhat rectified and a big unexpected bonus check came in which is seeing me through the other Gov’t fiasco. One hand gives while the other takes away….
    To the original aspect from 10th to 5th. . It seems in youth my heart hurt for my mother and the suffering she did and now I am seeing my youngest son through his. There is nothing to do but be there for them. You can never make other people see when they can not see. The best thing is just to hold their hand, be there for them and let them know you care.

    • I don’t have any of the skills of a visual artist (and greatly envy those who do) but I have a good artistic eye that I used to use in web design and also do have a flair for colors and styles as in decorating. Donna

  34. Good to see you’re back

  35. I replied to this post a while back but had yet another episode of “people from the past”. I had an Aquarius best friend for many decades. A few years ago, we lost track of each other, possibly due to 3rd party not relaying messages (or maybe not, not sure). I had been looking for her on the net for several years trying to reconnect. I found out yesterday that she died in 2009. I feel pretty sad about loosing her. I am wondering what the rest of this 2nd Saturn return is going to be like.

    • OMG! Well, Saturn can also have us reviewing–and learning from–our relationships with people who have passed on. It is, after all, in Scorpio. And maybe the reason you’ve been thinking of her so much lately is that you’ve been picking up on her death intuitively and need to reach closure. I’d guess Saturn in Scorpio would bring closure…of a sort.

      I don’t know if I should be telling this on the internet or not, but I am a medium–not that I seek the dead out, just that they seek me out and, frankly, pester me. That’s why I’ve never worked as a medium–they don’t know when to quit.

      And now that I think about it, I’ve been pestered psychically of late by the man who was the love of my life (just “coincidentally”, a Scorpio), asking me to forgive him. I can only imagine that he is newly deceased, as he’s a 2-time cancer survivor and would be 77. Donna

      • I am not a medium but I feel that the dead have contacted me a few times to say hi or goodbye. This has always happened in dreams.

        One example – was dreaming of playing water balloons with ex husband. Woke up laughing. Called daughter next day. Her son had a birthday party earlier that same day but me being far away, I was not able to attend. I asked her how the party went. She said, “We played water balloons…”. Something like this has happened with 5 people.

      • well by all means forgive him. i know my husband has contacted me as well but as i heal i sense he is moving on. and some people from the past are popping into my life too. some are not going to stick, but who knows maybe some will!

  36. Saturn is now going through my 7th House…did someone call it a witch hunt? I am if I am honest, having interactions with at least one Nobel Enemy. I think Saturn in my 6th made me less unready to go public..i.e. above the DC. Shall read through the posts today.

  37. My 7th house too. Trying to make new friends as the loss of my husband put a big hole in my life. It’s not easy to find new friends, even on a superficial level.

  38. Donna, I have natal Saturn in Scorpio, in 8th house, pluto is there too but not conjunct. I admire you a lot. Is my first saturn return.

    I turned into an hermit. I am hiding even from my family, even though they did nothing to me. I married, now moved to another country, I am hiding from old friends, family, except husband. I avoid making friends, feeling suspicious even of my own shadow. Is this normal?

    Also I have had a blockage of being able to study deep into things. I feel awful. I barely started a masters course, and I find DEEPLY hard to focus. Any insights on this Saturn in Scorpio in 8th house? Life is so stale right now. Nothing bad nothing extremely good. No excitement.

    I love your site, and I admire your writing a lot! I hope you have lots of good years ahead writing and inspiring us! Thanks!

    • Greetings Lina…..your comment that you feel as though you’re hiding, really rang a bell for me ! Even though I’m a year out of my second Saturn return, …I’m living like a Hermit in Mexico…..hiding from pretty much any contact with anybody, including Family;…..and feeling stalled on many levels. Indeed, nothing bad,…nothing good ! Saturn in Scorpio sits in my 7th house, opposite my 12th house Venus ! I came to Mexico in 2010, to focus on my Music and Painting, and was working on a series of Paintings for a showing, but that too has come to a grinding halt.

      Since my Saturn return, I feel as though I’ve become hyper-sensitive to remarks and opinions that people seem compelled to spout about Life, Religion, Truth, Politics, the Economy…..etc. etc. I spent my working-Life as a Care-giver and Hospice worker,…now I don’t seem to have anything left to accomodate others. I’m living in a “community” of self-absorbed, superficial Gringo’s, most of whom seem to hate the Mexican people. My Second Saturn return coinsided with my Life Partner’s insistence on leaving Canada to live in a “warmer climate”. In spite of the temperature outside, I’ve never experienced such coldness or dissociation as I have here. Leaving, to return to a more equitable environment means breaking-up a 38 year Relationship.

      I am somewhat conflicted ! ….Richard

      • I have similar feelings to others as to staying away from others. Its one of those times were I feel very isolated from others and maybe its not a bad thing. Its in my 11th going into my 12th right now.

      • Wow, Richard! I feel exactly the same! I in some very less populated small country right now. From a 2 million city capital in a huge country, I came to a 20.000 people city in this tiny country. And I feel exactly the same about the creative halt! I have to study or I will fail, but at same time I feel questioning everything, even my actions. Sometimes I dissociate, sometimes I get scared. How are you dealing in a daily base with those issues? Did you find a balance??

      • Hi…thank you for responding !……Funny you should ask if I’ve found any balance. Actually, this morning at 5:00A.M. I was reading through my past journals and the few entries I’d made to Donna’s Blogsite. I was actually really disturbed reading these musings, as they frequently contradict, mis-identify time periods, or seem bumbling and in-articulate ! Sometimes I confuse elements of my own Birthchart and sound like a total Novice who’s never glanced at real Astrology ! Perhaps it’s all necessary in order to sort out my internal inconsistencies; or perhaps I’m WAY over-thinking things !

        The last three years have represented the most challenging “employment” I’ve ever undertaken. Who would have thought retiring to Mexico could be so arduous ! In particular, the subject of Relationship has become critical to me. Why is it, I can communicate so intimately with virtual strangers on a Blog-site, when even the most superficial interactions are fraught with seemingly crucial or dire outcomes. I can only assume this is due to the missing component of Ego in our dialouges…..we have nothing to hide or defend because the Internet reduces us, in this case, to analysis or Self-Reflection. This feels like a more pure level of interaction;….does this sound strange? Have I indeed come to such a sad conclusion that only when I’m removed from the mix, can I truly relate?…..YIKES!

        Perhaps your Study dilemma becomes overwhelming when your internal learning curve begins to outdistance your outward objective studies. Sometimes I feel my Conscious Life is being eclipsed by my Subjective Reality. I just finished scoring a 40 on the… “How strong is your Neptune?”…test ! …no doubt a factor in my current challenges; however I really think the Saturn opposite 12th house Venus is a kind of tipping-point for my intrinsic weirdness. I’d like to think I’m progressing in some sort of significant manner, but mostly I just feel motivational paralysis. Perhaps in answer to your question I would have to say:….if balance is happening, it’s doing so under my radar ! I don’t think there’s any way I could contrive balance from a Conscious intention. ….at least, not yet.

        I hope your own process will bring you some clarity and repose …Richard

      • I wonder, Richard, whether the communication paradox you mention might come about because different houses are involved in internet vs. face to face communication.

        With face to face contacts, sometimes the tougher Ascendant/1st house placements come into play, with new people especially, and may cause you to tighten up with social anxiety. Invisible internet communications might be shown more with the 11th house (house of networking) or maybe the third for written vs spoken communication.

        Or it might be something like squares to Mercury, especially Saturn, that involve two different houses. I’d be interested to know if these possibilities apply to your chart. Donna

      • Hi Donna
        First let me say how much I appreciate your writing and clear thinking ! I’ve been reading your material for many years; I initially discovered your articles when I subscribed to The Mountain Astrologer, many years ago ! You are one of two Astrologers whom I really gravitate toward, the other being Liz Greene.

        Donna, I will look more closely at the houses and possible contacts causing my communication paradox. Curiously, I have Sun / Moon conjunct; Jupiter and Mars all in my Gemini 1st house….(Taurus Ascendant..thank heavens)

        One obvious challenging Transit currently, is T-Pluto opposing my 3rd house Mercury in Cancer. My 1st house Natal Moon is in mutual reception with Mercury, so perhaps my emotional freeze-up is a resonant sort of response to good Old Pluto whacking my Mercury.

        I was amazed with your test:….”How Strong is your Neptune” !….In all the years of trying to understand my Chart, I never clued in how Neptune influenced I am ! I scored 40 on your test. With natal Venus in my Taurus 12th house, it’s also possible that Saturn’s transit through Scorpio isn’t helping me feel too snuggly toward others !

        Thank you Donna, for your wisdom and generous Spirit…..Richard

      • LOL! The impression I’m getting of Saturn in Scorpio is that it isn’t helping ANY of us feel that snuggly toward others.

        *To the Group as a whole*: Now I’m speaking as a fellow explorer of Saturn in Scorpio, not as someone with many answers. I’m still reeling from the reappearance yesterday of yet another old “friend” who I broke off my friendship from several years back, for plenty of cause. (Burnout on her neediness, among other things.)

        (The Moon had just entered the sign Scorpio and was probably conjunct transiting Saturn. We can expect more of whatever transting Saturn is doing in your chart each month for the next year or two.)

        She’d called a few times over the past month, but when I saw her name on the caller ID, I ignored the call. (20 rings each time–who does that?) So yesterday, she emailed with a legitimate question about how she could help her spiritual teacher publish a manuscript as an ebook. I bit, it was legit. But at the bottom, she tried to engage me in a dialogue about what went wrong in our friendship.

        I’d learned a painful lesson from a couple of earlier “old friends” that I let back into my life when Saturn entered Scorpio. I’d felt sorry for their isolation, only to discover their troublesome patterns had gotten much worse (Saturn does tend to crystallize whatever the sign is about). I wound up having to cut them loose again, trying to be as kind as I possibly could. But they simply wouldn’t turn loose, so the parting got pretty traumatic, the more emphatic I had to be.

        So I knew better than to let yesterday’s caller back in my life, and refused to process my decision with her because it would only have been needlessly hurtful for both of us.

        But I’ve felt an icky twisting in my solar plexus all day at having to hurt someone I’d once been friends with at all–something that with all my heart I never want to do. But I know it would end badly if I let her start up again because she can’t change the patterns I’d gotten so burnt out on–they were part of her nature.

        Is anyone else tired of Saturn in Scorpio already?

        Maybe I need to start working the Scorpio prayer: Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors, even though the bastards don’t deserve it. Donna

      • For Future reference: Whenever someone says to you, “You’re my only friend,” know that you’re in real trouble. (Except, perhaps, when it involves people who are shut ins due to health problems or extreme age.)

        It pains me to think of anyone being alone in the world, so I’ve overextended myself to a number of them, overlooked their twisted traits as long as I could, and lived to regret it. There’s a reason they don’t have any friends–often they are bitter, toxic people, as well as master guilt trippers. Donna

      • Well said Donna.

  39. LIke Richard, I find it easier to communicate with those on the net that some people in person. This return has me wondering if I have high functioning autism. I scored high on the test but not quite into the definite range. I have personal friends and am basically ok at the one to one level, but have never liked parties or socializing very much. I found out that one hallmark of high functioning autism is being able to work at a computer or out of direct contact with people in general. This describes my current work life and I like it a lot.

    • Maybe you are just scared of being with people? I have a high Neptune score too and high Saturn/Jupiter. I sometimes get overwhelmed by people. Maybe is not autism? Some form of self protection? Like Donna is doing but since we can`t confront and say no to people like her we try to deviate from it altogether?

    • This is such a fascinating discussion for me !….each comment by Donna, Lina, and Desert Lady, mirror my own experiences in an uncanny fashion !

      Desert Lady’s reflections on Autism resonate for me, in that my last ten years of work was as companion to a young man with Autism !…His family had been trying for years to find someone who wouldn’t treat him as a client, but rather, as a friend. Indeed, within 5 years of working with him, I felt he was my BEST friend. I spent all day, every day with him, and I was his liason into the community at large. He couldn’t speak or care for himself in any way; I was his voice, his legs; I fed him, toileted him and washed him. I loved him. I intend on returning to him and to assist his Mum and Dad before his time here comes to an end.

      His Mum and Dad used to joke with me that the reason we connected was due to my own Autism….indeed, the longer you dwell in the realms of the Autistic, you realize how intensely connected to the world around them, they truly are;….WITHOUT speech or any of the criteria we mistakenly believe connects us to the world. For the Autistc, the World is an overwhelming intensity they are unable to buffer. My work entailed buffering that world, and thus I felt Peace.

      Saturn’s second return coinsided with a move far from my friend, and now my work consists of relearning how to adapt to the disconnect wrongly identifed as “normal”. When people attempt to overtake us, whether by subterfuge or through aggresive entitlement, it feels overwhelming and even dangerous; though our sovereign existence is threatened. Still, like Donna,…I suffer when I feel
      compelled to assert my boundaries;…yet how else can I survive?

      My challenge is to maintain a boundary that will not isolate me, but at the same time will preserve my own integrity. Neptune, Saturn, the Midheaven and Venus are all engaged in this work.

      • Yeah, nobody said boundaries were easy! I see them as ruled by Saturn (those amazing rings), so it’s no accident that Saturn in Scorpio is teaching us all some tough lessons about it. But I do know that the time periods when I was working hard to learn better boundaries have been hard but definitely an excellent skill once acquired. It’s just that repeated transits by Saturn to the same position (at 7-year intervals) make us learn them on a whole new level. Donna

  40. Thank you so much, Donna!

    But do you think the blockage of productivity/creativity/getting deep into things related to the concrete world that I and Richard have are connected with Saturn in Scorpio in 8th/7th house? Or some other planet that is being aspected by Saturn?

    • Not the 7th or 8th houses, no, because they’re not inherently connected with creativity or productivity, but instead to the impact of significant others. (Unless the demands of those relationships are what’s impeding the creativity and productivity.) It sounds like Saturn aspects to natal planets–or perhaps the Midheaven. Donna

  41. Very interesting comments, here. I don’t have Saturn in Scorpio, but I do have saturn in the eighth house (in Pisces)- so maybe there s a connection for me here. After all, the 8th house concerns Scorpio matters… interesting what Lina said about blockages, not wanting or feeling unable to study deeper. A lot of commentaries on saturn in the 8th , speak of this. Scorpio/8th house is associated with elimination, so I guess that makes so much sense.

    Maybe I was like this, at one time: i remember i had so many crazy fears; fears of the dark, fear of water, fear of people, fear of speaking in public- i don’t know!!! So many, but I think with experience, and doing some hypnotherapy sessions, dream work and aromatherapy( at 28/29, saturn return) , I was able to look at these irrationalities and craziness. I find now, i need to probe into things, into the dark, into dreams, under the surface; perhaps, it’s being urged by my Pluto in the 3rd( Virgo) , to make its voice heard, which is opposite Saturn. Food for thought.

    I agree a lot with Lina and Richard about often not being able to share things verbally, but able to write extensively, maybe on-line or in emails or letters. i spent so much time, fretting about my Saturn aspects; squares to mercury and moons, and oppositions to this and that planet, nit realising it was there to help, as Richard wisely put it: boundaries and structures, and to , in time, become the master of what you feel weakest in. That’s an amazing thing.

    I am very interested in many aspects of the eighth house, reading about, it, talking or writing about it: the hidden, elements of the subconscious, taboos, sexualities, the unknown and so on. It is ironic, that while saturn in the 8th house or Scorpio may deal with the fears of those things, I often find others around me aren’t interested in talking about such things, seriously, or laugh at them, or think that there are no alternative views, and what we see is what we get.

    • The last paragraph I feel the same about how others view those things. Interesting how you passed your Saturn return with hypnosis, dream work and aromatherapy!

      • @Lina, yes, on reflection, at 28, I was burning the candle at both ends, overworking/over socialising/ trying too hard, so I almost ended up having adrenal exhaustion.
        Perhaps underestimated the sensitivity of a Piscean Saturn :)! . I don’t plan to undergo the same thing again, if I reach my second Saturn return. Oh noooooo! I learned the hard way. Having said, after the Saturn return, while I still remained a college lecturer (my main job) I became a dancer, returned to doing more artistic endeavours, and became far more interested and committed to alternative therapies( Perhaps far more suitable to a Pisces Saturn 8th house ,,,,,, LOL ).

  42. Hi Donna -great to see you blogging again! I’m fairly new here but have found your books very helpful before and have enjoyed the articles here. I’m glad you’re better and hope you’re making a good progress on the new book.
    I tend to read more than talk and I rarely post comments but the timing of this post is too spooky and the content too relevant not to comment.
    When talking to a friend earlier today (before I found this post), I said that a relationship I am involved in now reminds me very much of a past one from a few years back. Sure enough, the episodes are around 7 years apart; the themes – boundaries (or lack of), self-worth, helping others at own expense, dependency, martyrdom. The context is slightly different as they are intimate relationships not friendships but this is probably not surprising considering my natal Saturn (Virgo/12th) is T-square my Gemini Moon (9th) and Neptune (3rd/Sag).
    The relationship 7 years ago turned out to be a very painful replay of my parents relationship. It left me deeply hurt but wiser (or so I hoped!). Now, despite my best intentions, I find myself struggling with the same issues as before. I seem to have recognised it earlier but I still don’t seem to have the tools/ resilience to avoid it. I’m in, trying not to sink to the very bottom this time.
    Curiously, my partner 7 years ago was going through his first Saturn return; the guy wreaking havoc in my life today has Saturn transiting his late Libra/ Scorpio stellium of 5 planets (Mer/Uranus in Libra; Mars, Venus and Sun in 5-12 degrees Scorpio). The situation this time is definitely not helped by transiting Pluto sq my ASC and sq his natal Pluto (my natal Pluto is in Libra, widely conjunct ASC plus I have an 8th house Sun conj. Mer). When I met him a few months ago, I felt a very strong impulse, a pulling in my body, something telling me he needed help, he needed me, he wanted me to help him (even though he never said it). It is definitely Saturn triggering some of the issues again but there’s so much more Pluto there now and it’s not black and white.
    While writing this post, I also realised another connection. I have received an email from a friend I met in 2004. She went back to her country 7 years ago and we have been hardly in touch since, even though we were very close when we lived together. She knew my partner back then and was the person I called on the darkest day of that relationship… It was a very positive, supportive friendship but she’s Pisces and I can’t help but wonder what (or who) brings her back…?

    • It’s not surprising to see relationships and themes that echo what was going on 7 years ago when Saturn last triggered a compelling part of the chart. It’s almost as though we learn a certain (painful) lesson by retrospect…but hopefully with a maturity that gives us the caution and self-awareness not to fall into the trap again. That’s kind of a theme, when Saturn makes that kind of transit, regardless of the sign. But it’s just seeming for so many of us, that Saturn in Scorpio is just that much harder a lesson, and the people we encounter that much more locked in to old, harrowing patterns of behavior.

      What I’m realizing, however, is that Saturn was in Libra for the past couple of years, teaching us lessons about boundaries and about the pitfalls of bending over backwards to please people and save the relationship at all costs to ourselves. Now that it’s in Scorpio, it really is the end of relationships that we have outlived, but the letting go is harder–either we won’t let go or they won’t, and so its often a bitter ending, with lots of recriminations. Donna

      • Thank you, Donna. Your point about Saturn in Libra vs. Saturn in Scorpio is very valid. Haven’t thought of it but it rings true (I have a Libra ASC – the transiting Pluto sq will now pick up where Saturn left off not long ago it seems…) It helps to understand. Thanks again for the insight.

  43. Thank you, Donna. Your point about Saturn in Libra vs. Saturn in Scorpio is very valid. Haven’t thought of it but it rings true (I have a Libra ASC – the transiting Pluto sq will now pick up where Saturn left off not long ago it seems…) It helps to understand. Thanks again for the insight.

  44. I have noticed a jump in old mysteries showing promise of being solved or at least reinvestigated (Jon Benet Ramsey, The Black Dahia, a boy in the SF Bay area from the 1980s, Madeline McCann and others). Is Saturn in Scorpio making this happen or is this something else?

    • Absolutely, DL. And many of us will be solving–and coming to closure–on the “cold cases” in our own lives. In a sense, that’s why these troublesome people from the past are showing up,. so that both parties can move on and let go. Donna

  45. I have my natal Sat. in Scorpio en the 3rd house, close to Pluto, which is in Libra, and with several aspects, including squares to my Sun in Aquarius and my Asc. in Leo. I´ve always been afraid of speaking in public, for example, not just now during the transit, so I know this energy for a long time.
    Casually (or not) I decided to start yoga more or less at the moment saturn was starting this transit in scorpio, and my personal return.

    • Hi, Lucas. To me, Yoga is a Saturn expression–it’s made up of a series of ancient forms, and it require patience and discipline. Donna

    • Hi, Lucas. To me, Yoga is a Saturn-related practice. It consists of ancient forms that require persistence and discipline to master. I do often see people starting to study yoga under Saturn transits. Donna

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